WEBVTT Kind: captions Language: en 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.080 [Shannon Ricles] Well, hi everyone. Welcome  to Submerge North Carolina's webinar series,   00:00:04.080 --> 00:00:10.080 Driven Ashore and Gone to Pieces - Beach Wrecks  of North Carolina. Glad you could join us today.   00:00:10.720 --> 00:00:14.720 I am Shannon Ricles. I'm the education and  outreach coordinator for Monitor National   00:00:14.720 --> 00:00:20.240 Marine Sanctuary and I'm going to be your host  today. And joining me is Mark Losavio. He's going   00:00:20.240 --> 00:00:25.280 to be my co-host. He is the media and outreach  coordinator for Monitor National Marine Sanctuary.   00:00:26.320 --> 00:00:30.880 Now this webinar is brought to you by  NOAA's Monitor National Marine Sanctuary   00:00:30.880 --> 00:00:34.560 in collaboration with the North  Carolina Office of State Archaeology. 00:00:37.120 --> 00:00:42.400 Partnering since 1975, NOAA and the state of  North Carolina have worked to research, honor,   00:00:42.400 --> 00:00:47.200 and protect the hallmarks of North Carolina's  underwater cultural heritage - shipwrecks. Now   00:00:47.200 --> 00:00:51.200 these shipwrecks hold information about the  ever-changing technologies and cultural and   00:00:51.200 --> 00:00:56.800 physical landscapes. Tthey serve as uniquely  accessible underwater museums and a memorial to   00:00:56.800 --> 00:01:02.640 generations of mariners who lived, died, worked,  and fought off our shores. This is one of the many   00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:07.360 webinars we will be hosting in the coming months  for the Submerged North Carolina webinar series   00:01:07.360 --> 00:01:12.240 in collaboration with the North  Carolina Office of State Archaeology.   00:01:12.240 --> 00:01:17.840 Now Monitor is just one of 14 national marine  sanctuaries and two marine national monuments   00:01:17.840 --> 00:01:22.160 in the National Marine Sanctuary System.  The system encompasses more than 600,000   00:01:22.960 --> 00:01:26.080 square miles of marine and Great  Lake waters from Washington State   00:01:26.080 --> 00:01:32.960 to the Florida Keys and from Lake Huron to the  America. I'm sorry my slide's going on its own. 00:01:35.200 --> 00:01:44.160 Sorry about that. Love technology. But during  the presentation, during the presentation all   00:01:44.160 --> 00:01:48.480 attendees will be in listen only mode. You are  welcome to type questions for the presenters into   00:01:48.480 --> 00:01:53.520 the question box at the bottom of the control  panel on the right hand side of your screen.   00:01:53.520 --> 00:02:00.480 Now this is the same area you can let me or any  of us know about any technical issues you may   00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:04.720 be having that we can help you with. And we'll  be monitoring incoming questions and technical   00:02:04.720 --> 00:02:09.360 issues, and we'll respond to them just as soon as we  can. We are recording this session and we'll share   00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:15.280 the recording with registered participants via the  webinar archive page and a URL will be provided at   00:02:15.280 --> 00:02:21.440 the end of this presentation. So we are welcoming  our presenter Stephen Atkinson, Assistant State   00:02:21.440 --> 00:02:26.320 Archaeologist for the North Carolina Underwater  Archaeology Branch. So Stephen tell us about the   00:02:26.320 --> 00:02:31.840 beach wrecks of North Carolina. And I am going to  make you presenter. [Stephen Atkinson] All right.   00:02:32.960 --> 00:02:35.840 Well thanks for having me.  This is something that I'm   00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:43.520 pretty passionate about. I grew up finding  beach wrecks along the shores of Maryland and 00:02:47.040 --> 00:02:53.600 all right here we go. All right  there you go. Is that it we're up. 00:03:00.960 --> 00:03:04.880 All right. Yeah, like I said, thanks for  the introduction. This is a topic I'm   00:03:04.880 --> 00:03:09.840 super passionate about because beach wrecks are  basically what inspired me to become a maritime   00:03:09.840 --> 00:03:15.680 archaeologist to begin with. So beach wrecks  have the special ability to capture the hearts   00:03:15.680 --> 00:03:20.720 and minds of folks on the coast. Sometimes even  more so than wrecks that still remain submerged.   00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:24.720 There's something about making your way  down the beach in the thick morning fog   00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:31.840 and discovering the worn timbers of an unfortunate  vessel that met a violent end many years ago.   00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:36.480 But once you cut through the romance and the  imagination, these wrecks are still important   00:03:36.480 --> 00:03:41.120 archaeological sites that need to be recorded  and managed. So in this talk, I hope to cover   00:03:41.120 --> 00:03:47.680 how we have done that in the past and what we  plan on doing in the future. So how to begin?   00:03:47.680 --> 00:03:52.960 Well, here's a few questions I hope to answer  throughout this talk regarding coastal geography:   00:03:52.960 --> 00:03:57.200 what type of wrecks we encounter, and how  we've interacted with them in the past,   00:03:57.200 --> 00:04:01.200 and what we plan to do in the future, as  well as the impacts the presence of these   00:04:01.200 --> 00:04:06.880 wrecks have on the people and places of coastal  North Carolina. I also plan on covering why we   00:04:06.880 --> 00:04:13.840 think it's important to do any of this type of  thing at all. So why so many beach wrecks, well   00:04:15.120 --> 00:04:18.960 seafaring vessels, have been wrecking on  the coast of North Carolina since the dawn   00:04:18.960 --> 00:04:24.960 of European exploration. And though the numbers  may have slowed, vessels still continue to wreck   00:04:24.960 --> 00:04:30.080 even to this day, usually in the form of iron  ships like shrimpers or fishing trawlers, and   00:04:31.040 --> 00:04:37.120 that type of thing. So there are  three major capes along our coast,   00:04:38.720 --> 00:04:45.280 each with shallow shoals that extend unseen miles  into the ocean. Combined with cooler Labrador   00:04:45.280 --> 00:04:49.600 currents from the north meeting the warmer  Gulf Stream from the south near Cape Hatteras,   00:04:50.400 --> 00:04:55.040 our coast has an extremely dynamic and  unpredictable weather conditions. Couple that   00:04:55.040 --> 00:04:59.760 with hurricane season, and it's essentially  the perfect mixture to create shipwrecks. 00:05:02.960 --> 00:05:09.040 So how many shipwrecks are out there? Well, on the  left you can see how many shipwrecks were lost by   00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:15.280 region based on historical documents. To the right  you can see the number of beach wreck remains that   00:05:15.280 --> 00:05:21.680 have been identified over the years. Currently,  there are over 90 identified sites in the program   00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:26.880 that are still being tracked along our beaches.  Some may not have been seen for years and   00:05:26.880 --> 00:05:31.600 years. Some might be gone, and we're sure as  heck still going to get more in the future. 00:05:35.920 --> 00:05:39.840 But as you can see from this popular  National Geographic map, that's   00:05:39.840 --> 00:05:44.560 basically a requirement to have in your house as  a maritime archaeologist, coastal NC resident,   00:05:44.560 --> 00:05:49.680 or just anybody interested in shipwrecks,  there's potential for hundreds of other wrecks   00:05:49.680 --> 00:05:55.920 to eventually become uncovered, washed up, and  newly identified. Our database of reported beach   00:05:55.920 --> 00:06:00.080 wrecks is ever growing from massive fragments  like the one you see in this picture, which is   00:06:00.080 --> 00:06:07.280 basically a whole ship to single disarticulated  frames, planks, heels, stern posts, even rudders. 00:06:11.440 --> 00:06:16.400 And it's because of the combined factors of the  three major capes and their associated shoals,   00:06:16.960 --> 00:06:20.080 the combination of two major  currents, and the ever present   00:06:20.080 --> 00:06:24.800 risk of storms that our coast has become known  as the Graveyard of the Atlantic, with so many   00:06:24.800 --> 00:06:29.360 ships ending up just like the Priscilla  here. And I love this historical picture,   00:06:29.360 --> 00:06:33.600 because you could tell that this guy is basically  in the middle of salvaging this shipwreck   00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:38.880 and stopped to strike a pose. And you can see  his pickaxe smacked into the deck right there. 00:06:43.200 --> 00:06:49.120 So what's left? Well to be honest, most wreck  sites are mere fractions of their former selves   00:06:49.120 --> 00:06:53.760 with most of the superstructure being broken  down by hundreds of years of ocean activity.   00:06:54.320 --> 00:06:59.920 This leaves sizable articulated chunks,  usually the lower 10 percent of the vessel.   00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:06.080 Sometimes you'll find more of a wreck, if it was  a smaller vessel. But much of the beach wrecks   00:07:06.080 --> 00:07:11.440 we find today are sections of vessels that  had probably three, four, even five masts.   00:07:12.320 --> 00:07:20.720 They were basically the tanker ships of  their time. So insofar as a ship wreck goes,   00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:26.880 the rigging would be the first bits of the ship  to be lost. And once one piece of a ship fails,   00:07:26.880 --> 00:07:31.680 it really becomes a domino effect. The  vessel then experiences failures in weak   00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:37.920 points in their construction with the battering  waves breaking fasteners along the bow and the   00:07:37.920 --> 00:07:45.360 stern. This in turn, will pop out whole planks and  eventually fracture the keel, if the vessels smack   00:07:45.360 --> 00:07:51.120 down on a sand bar hard enough. And once that  happens, it's all over. So there's a reason why   00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:55.360 so many of the beach wrecks you see today are  still those heavily built chunks that I mentioned   00:07:55.360 --> 00:08:00.160 before is anything less really would have been  smashed to splinters hundreds of years ago.   00:08:01.280 --> 00:08:06.960 Historical documents also tell us that much  of what could be salvageable after the time   00:08:06.960 --> 00:08:11.040 of wrecking, would have been auctioned or  sold off to try and recuperate the owner's   00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:16.800 losses. And even more would have been reused  by the local nearest population basically. 00:08:19.760 --> 00:08:25.520 So how do we really know it's a shipwreck? To get  started, well there are a number of features that   00:08:25.520 --> 00:08:31.040 typically separate ships' timbers from an  old chunk of fishing pier or dune crossing.   00:08:31.840 --> 00:08:38.480 Curved timbers would be your first indicator.  Followed by whatever fastener types may or may   00:08:38.480 --> 00:08:43.360 not be present. So ships would have used  what's called trunnels, which is a type of   00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:49.120 wooden peg driven through the plank and frame,  and/or bronze or iron spikes and drift pins,   00:08:49.920 --> 00:08:55.920 which are essentially massive rivets used in  areas that require greater reinforcement, such   00:08:55.920 --> 00:09:04.160 as attaching the bottom-most floor timbers or  floor frames to the keel itself or putting a large   00:09:04.160 --> 00:09:09.600 drift pin through an area of the ship called the  deadwood, which was a large solid piece of wood   00:09:10.480 --> 00:09:15.040 right in front of the stern post. Kind of  where the rudder itself would attach to.   00:09:15.840 --> 00:09:21.840 So this type of construction can be easily  scaled up or down depending on ship size. 00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:29.120 So what's been done in the past ? Well, for as  long as UAB has been around, which is the 60s,   00:09:29.760 --> 00:09:34.720 there have been a conscious effort to investigate  these beach wrecks whenever they appear   00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:39.600 and record them in any way possible.  Usually through photography   00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:45.040 and pencil and paper. As evident in this  photo here, signs were sometimes placed   00:09:45.040 --> 00:09:49.840 on wreck fragments to prevent people  from carting off timbers as souvenirs.   00:09:50.640 --> 00:09:55.200 Still plenty of timbers are taken away from  the beaches and many more end up in fire pits. 00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:04.800 UAB has been keeping tabs and recording beach  wrecks throughout the 60s, 70s, and 80s,   00:10:04.800 --> 00:10:11.440 but it was not until 1990 definitively that  UAB developed a beach wreck tagging program   00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:16.080 to inventory and track ships' timbers, whole  fragments, and even entire ships that could   00:10:16.080 --> 00:10:21.280 be found washed up on the beaches, buried or exposed, and migrating up and down the shoreline.   00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:28.080 The small circle tag, circular yellow tag in  the middle, there was a fix to a rocker timber   00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:33.200 with a single nail displaying information, such  as the wreck's tag number designation and our   00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:40.560 branch's contact info if found. All that info  is then also recorded in our big red book there   00:10:41.280 --> 00:10:47.440 to keep track of it all and make sure we  know what tags have been deployed and what   00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:51.200 wrecks that they were attached  to. But as time went on,   00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:57.600 the office numbers changed, the addresses  changed, tags were lost, and the increase   00:10:57.600 --> 00:11:03.040 in different branch responsibilities meant that  the program more or less has fallen out of use. 00:11:06.560 --> 00:11:12.320 So what do we do now? Well, essentially, we  do pretty much the same as it was before,   00:11:12.320 --> 00:11:20.000 except digitally. So we manage and report wrecks  via email and have the reporter include photos and   00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:25.840 geographical location. We normally respond with  our assessment of the structure, if it's known,   00:11:25.840 --> 00:11:32.880 and what vessel it might have been. If it's new,  it'll receive a site number based on our coastal   00:11:32.880 --> 00:11:38.560 delineation system, and get its own file in  our database. But that's kind of about it.   00:11:38.560 --> 00:11:44.560 I mean our ability to visit every wreck is, as  always, dependent on time, money, and location.   00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:51.120 And the very southerly location of our office  headquarters in Kure Beach in Wilmington   00:11:51.920 --> 00:11:55.760 makes it pretty difficult to make it all the  way out to the Outer Banks in time before an   00:11:55.760 --> 00:12:03.680 entire shipwreck is reburied, or a single timber  washes away, that type of thing. So I just wanted   00:12:03.680 --> 00:12:08.160 to include this slide real quick to nerd out  about ship construction for a second. Because   00:12:08.160 --> 00:12:15.440 it's kind of contrary to what I had literally  just said about lower and heavily built sections   00:12:15.440 --> 00:12:20.160 of a ship being the most preserved. Because  there's a couple features in this wreck that   00:12:20.160 --> 00:12:25.120 shows that it's certainly upper structure, which  to me is pretty fascinating, because you don't see   00:12:25.120 --> 00:12:30.240 it that much. So in the upper right-hand corner  is a ship's knee, and I believe that one would   00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:36.240 be referred to as a transverse knee. Something  that's not, you know, straight up and down. And   00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:42.720 it would have been used to reinforce particular  joints there for the deck beams, the outer hull   00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:48.640 planking, and the skinnier frames that you see kind  of sticking out of the sand in the center picture,   00:12:48.640 --> 00:12:54.800 which are referred to as futtocks. So this whole  section kind of exhibits the straights of upper   00:12:54.800 --> 00:13:01.840 deck, because it's more lightly built. It has  those knees at weird angles and interesting   00:13:01.840 --> 00:13:07.920 corners. And there's also the bottom picture in  the center there has a huge concreted iron area,   00:13:07.920 --> 00:13:14.320 which could be the remains of the hawsepipe where  cables would run through to affix the boat to   00:13:14.320 --> 00:13:22.960 a dock or to run the anchor through. So this  one I have flagged for revisiting. But anyway,   00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:29.520 this was essentially the other responsibility  that has kind of taken precedence more or less   00:13:30.880 --> 00:13:36.800 over a lot of the other things we do. So this  aspect of our job occupies a great deal of time.   00:13:37.920 --> 00:13:42.960 It involves fulfilling the requirements of Section  106 of the National Historic Preservation Act   00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:48.000 requiring the archaeological review of numerous  projects. So we handle all the coastal counties   00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:54.320 and still do encounter wrecks related to these  types of projects and occurrences. But we also   00:13:54.320 --> 00:13:57.360 handle all manner of terrestrial  archaeology review as well.   00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:07.440 This one is, I believe, in Surf City,  and we had informed the beach wreck or   00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:11.760 the beach re-nourishment project that there  was a wreck there. But I'm not sure if that   00:14:11.760 --> 00:14:15.520 information trickled all the way down. And  it was being kind of run over by machines.   00:14:15.520 --> 00:14:19.920 So we made sure to get out there and delineate  this site so nothing would be more impacted. 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:27.691 All that being said, it's time now to move towards  a new way of cataloging and monitoring beach   00:14:27.691 --> 00:14:33.680 wrecks. Technology has changed well enough  in our favor for an easy and efficient way   00:14:33.680 --> 00:14:38.240 of collecting site condition data and  location, all with the use of a smartphone.   00:14:38.960 --> 00:14:42.880 These new tags won't be bound  entirely by the text printed on them,   00:14:42.880 --> 00:14:47.840 such as a phone number or an address, but  rather it will depend on the survival of   00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:52.160 a QR code connected to a database for  reporting the wreck timbers discovery. 00:14:55.840 --> 00:15:01.760 So this new system of shipwreck tagging will be  undertaken with a new partnership centered around   00:15:01.760 --> 00:15:07.600 the Florida Public Archaeology Network Shipwreck  Tagging Archaeological Maritime Program. Or STAMP,   00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:14.880 as it's much more easily referred to as. This QR  code-based database encourages anyone who comes   00:15:14.880 --> 00:15:20.400 across a tag to scan the code with their phone,  which will produce an easily fillable web form,   00:15:20.400 --> 00:15:28.880 that is then stored in their corresponding  database. The initial concept and efficacy   00:15:28.880 --> 00:15:34.640 testing began as a summer project that eventually  became a master's thesis by Austin Burkhard.   00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:39.360 A wreck tagging workshop was held  that trained 20 volunteers on how to   00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:44.960 properly identify and tag wreck fragments and  timbers on Chincoteague Island in Virginia. 00:15:49.040 --> 00:15:53.280 So this is the first iteration  of the QR code-based wreck tag,   00:15:53.280 --> 00:15:58.720 which would eventually be implemented in  Florida via a FPAN STAMP. Made from Mylar,   00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:04.560 which is a type of plastic waterproof paper.  Chemically bonded inside two layers of Plexiglas,   00:16:04.560 --> 00:16:11.520 the tag proved to be largely UV resistant and  highly resilient. Stainless nails were chosen as a   00:16:11.520 --> 00:16:17.440 fastening method for ease of install, as something  like a hammer is a lot easier to transport and   00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:22.320 wheel as opposed to power tools, which would  require electricity. And in many cases,   00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:27.360 you're probably standing in ankle deep water,  and it's not really a risk that's worth taking. 00:16:29.520 --> 00:16:36.480 So numerous other tag types that have been used  in the past were also collected by this crew and   00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:41.920 used as a sample. And they were deployed along  with the Plexiglas tag in order to gauge the   00:16:41.920 --> 00:16:49.840 new tags viability and resilience, including  one of UAB's very own yellow tags up there. 00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:56.560 So these sample tags were placed on actual  wreck timbers that they had in the area,   00:16:57.280 --> 00:17:00.480 which were then strategically left  in different coastal environments,   00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:05.040 including submerged dune and inter-tidal  zones, to see how everything held up. 00:17:09.760 --> 00:17:17.760 But okay. So the yellow tags held up okay. They  were a little bit subjective to warping and   00:17:17.760 --> 00:17:23.040 breakage. The orange tag completely washed  out, which is kind of interesting to me,   00:17:23.040 --> 00:17:27.920 but it was pretty clear that the Plexiglas tag had  come out on top compared to all the other ones. 00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:35.920 But that was only half the equation. So in the  years following, the data collected through the   00:17:35.920 --> 00:17:42.000 web form and online database, there were 200  submissions received from 90 different tags,   00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:49.360 with 175 tags being deployed overall. The timbers  with unreported tags could have easily been   00:17:49.360 --> 00:17:55.440 reburied, swept back out to sea, or could have  even been moved to a far and inaccessible shore.   00:17:56.160 --> 00:18:03.280 Either way, the data still continues to stream  in. So FPAN's program has basically rebuilt,   00:18:03.280 --> 00:18:08.960 revamped, and redesigned the program based  off the principles laid out in early testing.   00:18:09.760 --> 00:18:16.880 And has already led to successful results on the  beaches of Florida. So further, there are plans   00:18:16.880 --> 00:18:20.880 basically to partner with the National Park  Service, as well as Maryland, Virginia,   00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:25.200 Rhode Island, and of course, Florida in what  could be the beginning of a tagging program   00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:32.560 that spans the entire East Coast. And also,  before diving headfirst into the STAMP program,   00:18:32.560 --> 00:18:39.360 I'd be remiss if we didn't mention our NC  State intern who began experimenting with   00:18:39.360 --> 00:18:47.680 other potential options. Having worked with  GIS and the GIS-based system, using Survey123   00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:52.160 app as a different, but quite  similar method of tracking features. 00:18:54.560 --> 00:19:01.440 Well, so what's the point? Why are we bothering  to do all this stuff anyways? Well, it may seem   00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:06.160 ridiculous to talk about recording and preserving  beach timbers and wreck sites, while also just   00:19:06.800 --> 00:19:11.600 letting them sit there at the mercy of the tide,  but hear me out. I promise it'll make sense. 00:19:14.080 --> 00:19:19.120 The wreck timber depicted here was tagged by  Austin and his crew. And through the frequent   00:19:19.120 --> 00:19:24.240 scanning by curious discoverers, they were able  to track the timber as it journeyed all the way   00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:29.360 from Chincoteague, Virginia, to Corolla, North  Carolina, which is like hundreds of miles. So   00:19:29.360 --> 00:19:33.440 this type of long-distance movement is something  that we never really would have been aware of   00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:38.880 if not for these tags. And the timber certainly  would have assumed to have been a local shipwreck.   00:19:39.600 --> 00:19:44.640 So who knows how much other wrecks have moved  in the past and how far they could have gone. 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:55.760 Another huge aspect in advocating for an NC2  wreck tagging program is weighing the costs   00:19:55.760 --> 00:20:01.840 of extraction and proper conservation.  So it's not always as easy as dragging   00:20:01.840 --> 00:20:05.840 a timber up the beach and popping  it in a corral for folks to look at.   00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:13.200 The timber has been buried under wet sand for  possibly hundreds of years. And it's acclimated   00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:20.160 to that environment. So the movement, the moment  that that changes and the timber begins to dry out,   00:20:20.160 --> 00:20:26.480 it's going to crack, warp, shrink, and splinter  becoming a shadow of its former diagnostic self.   00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:32.400 And the cost to adequately conserve that timber  in proper bulking agents could cost hundreds or   00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:38.320 even thousands of dollars. Plus you need  a facility to do it in. But of course,   00:20:39.040 --> 00:20:44.480 concessions can always be made for particularly  diagnostic materials, such as this awesome bow   00:20:44.480 --> 00:20:49.600 adornment here. And you can see kind of the very  tip of it on the left-hand side there in detail. 00:20:54.080 --> 00:21:00.000 So it's also imperative to consider what it  would take to move an entire shipwreck. So   00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:05.280 it's easy to look at an exposed site and think,  man we really need to do something about this,   00:21:05.280 --> 00:21:10.880 without taking the time to consider where it's  going to go and what the plan is after movement.   00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:17.040 Now I use these two wrecks only as examples. Not  to put the way that they were handled on blast.   00:21:18.080 --> 00:21:23.120 It's my understanding that the Nags Head wreck  had become semi-buoyant and decided to have one   00:21:23.120 --> 00:21:28.800 last sail right into the side of the nearest  pier. So of course, that one had to be handled.   00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:35.840 But you can see the before and after of moving  a shipwreck to an area and not providing   00:21:35.840 --> 00:21:41.040 any type of treatment. I mean the timbers  have basically turned brittle and started   00:21:41.040 --> 00:21:48.560 to crumble. I mean that one on the Corolla wreck is  completely in half now. You know it's just,   00:21:48.560 --> 00:21:53.200 it's just a massive logistical undertaking.  And many of the wrecks end up crumbling away   00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:58.080 in a parking lot, where they very well could  have lasted many more years under the sand. 00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:07.520 But like I said, there's always kind of caveats.  We're always accepting donations at our office,   00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:11.200 and we're willing to take in a  reasonable amount of materials. I   00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:16.160 don't think we have enough space for  an entire ship. But you know, even   00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:21.760 one timber that has been kicking around the garage  for 30 years still has a lot to tell us, like that   00:22:21.760 --> 00:22:26.800 one on the bottom left-hand side. That skinny  one that was donated to us I think last year. 00:22:31.760 --> 00:22:33.520 So what are the benefits of all of this?   00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:40.720 Well like I mentioned in a previous slide, being  able to track a wreck fragment or lone timber,   00:22:40.720 --> 00:22:46.080 provides us with multiple levels of data. Data  as simple as location and site condition can tell   00:22:46.080 --> 00:22:52.720 us about the state of our coastline. How often a  wreck is exposed due to how often it's reported.   00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:57.280 The more it's exposed and reported, the more  it can degrade, and so on, and so forth. So   00:22:58.320 --> 00:23:05.120 the attached images that folks send us, as well  can indicate to us if the wreck is breaking up or   00:23:05.120 --> 00:23:12.800 if it's relatively stable. But even more so than  the tagging program, these beach wrecks mean a lot   00:23:12.800 --> 00:23:17.280 of things to a lot of different people and their  communities. So it's our hope that the presence   00:23:17.280 --> 00:23:23.040 of a tag alone on any given timber will indicate  that these pieces are more than just firewood,   00:23:23.040 --> 00:23:28.960 but an important piece of our collective coastal  history and deserve to be preserved. And our first   00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:34.240 step in implementing this program should probably  be to create materials to engage with the folks   00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:39.760 who most frequently see these wrecks, because  after all, they'll probably be the end up doing   00:23:39.760 --> 00:23:45.920 most of the reporting. In the future, I hope to  create more video content, like this video that we   00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:54.800 produced last year for Submerged NC celebrations.  Basically, outlining what it takes to identify a   00:23:54.800 --> 00:24:03.840 wreck timber. And I think more material like this  can aid in our tag, wreck tagging initiative. 00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:14.080 Like I said, many coastal communities are already  well aware of the wrecks on their beaches. And   00:24:14.080 --> 00:24:20.320 with the prevalence of social media these days,  pages, such as this one on Facebook have become   00:24:20.320 --> 00:24:26.080 a fairly popular way to exchange daily sightings,  discoveries, and ask questions about the wrecks.   00:24:26.800 --> 00:24:30.560 Are they uncovered right now? Can I go  check it out? Do I need an ORB pass?   00:24:31.120 --> 00:24:36.480 That type of thing. So others even depend on  these wrecks as an element of their economy   00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:41.440 with folks giving beach tours focused on  taking tourists to well-known shipwrecks.   00:24:43.760 --> 00:24:50.160 Even distilleries that have special releases  named after significant beach wrecks in the area.   00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:53.760 Notice that particularly suspicious mantlepiece. 00:24:57.120 --> 00:25:04.000 So like I said, in the beginning, where do  we begin? Well, it's my opinion that the best   00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:08.000 plan of action in regards to deploying  the tags and getting them out there   00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:13.840 should probably be focused on the most  frequently reported wrecks as candidates   00:25:13.840 --> 00:25:19.680 for the first tag. So for a number of reasons,  firstly this frequency of reporting, shows that   00:25:20.560 --> 00:25:27.040 they are more often uncovered. Therefore, more at  risk to environmental degradation, but they're also   00:25:27.040 --> 00:25:32.640 more visible and visited, meaning that the tag is  more likely to be noticed, scanned, and reported.   00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:39.840 And the program be recognized and learned about.  So this slide depicts a handful of the most recent   00:25:39.840 --> 00:25:45.200 and more commonly reported wrecks from the past  year. I think the most popular one, currently,   00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:52.880 is the G.A. Kohler on top. I think that section  is probably the lower back bottom of the ship.   00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:58.880 And as you can see, it's like extremely  heavily built. The Metropolis comes and   00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:05.680 goes, possible Metropolis, near Corolla off ramp  55 is another pretty popular one out on Hatteras.   00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:11.760 I see the Edith Stowe being reported quite a lot.  Normally, you don't see as much of it as you do   00:26:11.760 --> 00:26:20.400 in this picture. This one shows the keel, but also  the outline of the outer part of the ship as well.   00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:26.080 And the mile 67 or 65.7 site, rather is, I believe,   00:26:26.080 --> 00:26:30.720 out on Ocracoke and has been making the rounds  on news networks and that type of thing. 00:26:34.080 --> 00:26:42.800 And the truth is the ever-changing climate, coastal  erosion, and the purely chaotic and dynamic nature   00:26:42.800 --> 00:26:47.280 of the Outer Banks, and all barrier islands  for that matter, means that these sites are   00:26:47.280 --> 00:26:52.960 in a constant state of flux. Considering it's  usually far too difficult to raise and conserve   00:26:52.960 --> 00:26:57.680 every site, the tags give us an opportunity  for gaining invaluable information on the   00:26:57.680 --> 00:27:05.840 status of these sites, from movement, to site  condition, and basically, anything in between. 00:27:08.320 --> 00:27:14.480 So in summary, it's our hope that the presence  of these tags on the timber or whole fragment   00:27:15.040 --> 00:27:19.200 will show that these timbers are not in fact  just a chunk of wood, but an important cultural   00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:25.440 resource and subject to scientific study. Leaving  the tagged wrecks and timbers in an 'as found'   00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:31.600 condition also opens up the opportunity for  the public to experience the joy of discovery,   00:27:32.320 --> 00:27:36.320 and engage them by giving them the  opportunity to participate in a   00:27:36.320 --> 00:27:40.720 long-term scientific study that will benefit the  beach communities of North Carolina as a whole.   00:27:41.840 --> 00:27:44.240 So who wants to get out there  and help me place some tags?   00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:52.000 Thanks everybody. [Shannon Ricles] All right.  Thank you Stephen. Okay, well we're gonna do some   00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:57.040 questions and answers now. So if you haven't had  time to put your question in, please feel free to   00:27:57.040 --> 00:28:03.280 put it in the question box, so we can get it  to Stephen. And the first question we have   00:28:03.280 --> 00:28:07.760 is - what's the biggest surprise in recent  years concerning shipwrecks that you've had? 00:28:07.760 --> 00:28:15.840 [Stephen Atkinson] Biggest surprise in recent  years? I don't know. That's a good question.   00:28:16.800 --> 00:28:25.520 [Shannon Ricles] Anything that was unexpected? [Stephen Atkinson] Not particularly. We, like I said, we kind of have a good handle   00:28:25.520 --> 00:28:29.840 on the big ones, you know, the main wrecks that  are often reported like I had on that slide. So   00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:37.120 I don't think anything's really taken us off  guard. Although it has been interesting from   00:28:37.120 --> 00:28:45.120 a modern standpoint to watch the interest  and degradation of what' that ship? The   00:28:45.120 --> 00:28:51.200 Ocean Pursuit, I think. It's become a cultural  phenomenon. So that to me is interesting from   00:28:51.200 --> 00:28:55.360 like an anthropological standpoint, because you  wonder if the local communities would have had   00:28:55.360 --> 00:29:01.120 the same opinions of the wooden ships that were  there, you know, 100 to 200 years ago. So that's   00:29:01.120 --> 00:29:07.840 pretty interesting. [Shannon Ricles] Okay. And  then we also have, let's see, let me go back up. 00:29:10.800 --> 00:29:17.280 Besides providing a location to managers, does the  QR code system give the finder data or historical   00:29:17.280 --> 00:29:24.800 information about a timber, such as a frame, a  knee, etc.? [Stephen Atkinson] Not as of yet. So   00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:32.080 we don't really have too much in regards to site  specifics when you scan the code and get the web   00:29:32.080 --> 00:29:37.520 form. It's really just an entry system, but  we hope to have that feature in the future.   00:29:38.800 --> 00:29:43.440 So I guess, like I said with that slide about  known wrecks, once we know what the wreck is   00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:50.320 and know its history, it's my hope that we can  essentially attach, I guess something that you   00:29:50.320 --> 00:29:56.400 could call a brochure or whatever to that QR code.  And when you scan it, it'll give you a readout   00:29:56.400 --> 00:30:01.120 of that wreck and its history. I think that  would be a super cool aspect. [Shannon Ricles]   00:30:01.120 --> 00:30:07.040 Okay. Mark do you have any questions you  want to read off? [Mark Losavio] Yes. We have   00:30:07.040 --> 00:30:13.680 someone wondering if there's some sort of maybe  internship program to help with this kind of work?   00:30:15.120 --> 00:30:19.600 [Stephen Atkinson] Nothing's set up yet,  but I think moving forward in the future,   00:30:19.600 --> 00:30:22.720 I think that would be an incredible  resource for us to have. I mean   00:30:23.600 --> 00:30:29.520 basically, UAB staff in total is four  people, and we have the whole coastline   00:30:29.520 --> 00:30:33.680 of North Carolina to handle. So any help  we can get would be greatly appreciated.   00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:39.520 [Shannon Ricles] Stephen you mentioned that  you had a volunteer program that you did.   00:30:39.520 --> 00:30:44.000 Is there any way for people to get involved in  that volunteer program and take the training?   00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:50.080 [Stephen Atkinson] That was actually set up  by Austin Burkhard a number of years ago when   00:30:50.080 --> 00:30:56.160 he started experimenting with this type of  technology. That wasn't UAB in particular,   00:30:56.960 --> 00:30:59.920 but that's certainly something that  we could look forward to in the future   00:31:01.120 --> 00:31:07.600 in setting up. [Shannon Ricles] Okay, Mark do you  have another one? [Mark Losavio] We have another   00:31:07.600 --> 00:31:13.280 question. How far might you or your team travel in  a given week? Are you guys on the go all the time?   00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:21.200 [Stephen Atkinson] Not currently because of, you  know, Covid restrictions and all that. But on the   00:31:21.200 --> 00:31:29.200 day-to-day, if things were I guess you could say  'normal', we try to be moving. You know, we have,   00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:34.320 like I said, we basically have two different  responsibilities. One is essentially   00:31:35.840 --> 00:31:41.840 the archaeological review for Section 106 project  related stuff. And then the other is managing   00:31:41.840 --> 00:31:47.280 all these submerged resources. So we  usually start the month with a game   00:31:47.280 --> 00:31:53.600 plan of things we want to accomplish, things  we want to see, and nine times out of ten,   00:31:53.600 --> 00:32:00.320 it doesn't ever go exactly as planned. New things  are reported or new issues come up. And we just   00:32:00.320 --> 00:32:05.840 basically have to take things as they come.  [Shannon Ricles] Okay, another question is,   00:32:06.880 --> 00:32:12.320 they said great presentation and being located in  southeast North Carolina, do you foresee tagging   00:32:12.320 --> 00:32:17.040 the numerous wrecks along the Cape Fear  River or other rivers? [Stephen Atkinson]   00:32:17.040 --> 00:32:21.280 Yeah, absolutely. I don't see why not.  If they're exposed enough. You know,   00:32:21.280 --> 00:32:26.560 we're not going to put a tag on a wreck that's  underwater and is never really going to see   00:32:27.600 --> 00:32:33.040 air, but if there's like a wreck that's  located kind of in the intertidal zone,   00:32:33.040 --> 00:32:39.520 that type of thing, absolutely. I will say, if  if you're a local, I doubt we're going to drudge   00:32:39.520 --> 00:32:44.480 out over to Eagles Island and put tags on any  of those wrecks in that shipwreck graveyard,   00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:50.320 but probably a little bit farther down here  closer to the mouth of the river, definitely. 00:32:50.320 --> 00:32:56.240 [Mark Losavio] We have an  interesting question about how   00:32:57.040 --> 00:33:00.400 you're planning on working with a  bunch of states on the eastern coast,   00:33:01.280 --> 00:33:06.800 but what about the beaches, say in the Gulf  Coast or the West Coast or even near Hawaii,   00:33:07.360 --> 00:33:12.480 what are the programs like over there? [Stephen  Atkinson] Frankly, I don't know. I'm not sure   00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:18.240 what other states have done. I mean Florida, you  know, working with FPAN and Florida, they encompass   00:33:18.240 --> 00:33:24.720 all the coasts so they would handle the Gulf  Coast as well, for sure. And you know it's   00:33:25.280 --> 00:33:30.000 it sounds harder than I think it honestly is,  because a lot of the underwater archaeology   00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:34.400 branches are much like us. It's just a handful of  people, you know, two, three, four, five people.   00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:41.920 So it honestly isn't that hard to coordinate  between everybody. And I think if FPAN is going   00:33:41.920 --> 00:33:48.320 to be the one hosting the server, then really all  we've got to do is work on getting our hard goods,   00:33:48.320 --> 00:33:55.200 like the tags and the QR codes of the match, and  putting them out there. [Shannon Ricles] Okay,   00:33:55.200 --> 00:34:00.400 another question came in, it says other than  fasteners, what artifacts accompany these timbers? 00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:09.920 [Stephen Atkinson] Well, for beach wrecks,  not much to be honest. They're pretty well   00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:17.120 like stripped by the waves' action themselves.  I know with the Corolla wreck, which I featured   00:34:17.120 --> 00:34:22.880 on one of the slides, held local had a number  of artifacts that were found in and around it.   00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:31.680 But it was really just a handful of coins and  that type of thing. But unless the ship is really,   00:34:32.640 --> 00:34:38.000 I don't want to say intact, but definitely more of  a ship shape rather, a lot of the artifacts that   00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:43.680 would have been inside the ship or just washed  out and washed over hundreds of thousands of   00:34:43.680 --> 00:34:51.600 times. And like I said, it's even kind of tough  to judge the context of the artifact of the   00:34:51.600 --> 00:35:01.840 ship itself sometimes, because they do often move  pretty far from their original wrecking location. 00:35:01.840 --> 00:35:04.800 [Mark Losavio] Okay, we have  another interesting question.   00:35:06.160 --> 00:35:10.000 Is there like a slow season or  a peak season for beach tagging? 00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:17.600 [Stephen Atkinson] Yeah, I mean absolutely.  Obviously, the slow time would be the winter when   00:35:17.600 --> 00:35:25.120 nobody's out at the beach. And it definitely picks  up in the summertime when people are out there,   00:35:25.120 --> 00:35:31.920 kind of getting into the weeds, getting into the  dunes, and exploring during the summer. But in so   00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:37.760 far as wrecks being exposed, that would definitely  be more of a winter thing, a fall/winter when all   00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:42.320 the storms are hitting the coast and the beaches  become a lot shorter. So that's when you start   00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:47.120 to see the timber sticking out. And like in a  few of the images, you can see wrecks basically   00:35:47.120 --> 00:35:52.960 sticking straight out of the dunes. [Shannon  Ricles] Okay and then another question is,   00:35:54.160 --> 00:35:59.600 you said that wrecks can move up and down  the beach. So what's the furthest you've ever   00:35:59.600 --> 00:36:04.560 found a wreck to move? [Stephen Atkinson]  Honestly, that timber that I featured that   00:36:04.560 --> 00:36:09.680 Austin tagged. I had never seen, I mean obviously  it wasn't a whole ship. it was just one timber,   00:36:09.680 --> 00:36:16.640 but that's an incredible distance. And for it to  be as intact as it was too, was pretty impressive.   00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:23.680 Normally, wooden ships are completely devoured  by a marine boring worm called Teredo, that   00:36:23.680 --> 00:36:30.160 lives in warmer waters, and you know, if a timber  is sticking out of the water, into the water, out   00:36:30.160 --> 00:36:36.320 of the sand, or whatever for any amount of time,  it starts to be found and destroyed. So that one's   00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:44.640 held up pretty well. But yeah, for us honestly, I  mean we're not gonna really know until we get some   00:36:44.640 --> 00:36:49.200 new tags on these ships, and then we can really  figure out how much and how often they're moving. 00:36:49.200 --> 00:36:57.120 [Mark Losavio] Do you need a special app to  read the QR codes? Or will just   00:36:57.120 --> 00:37:01.760 a regular QR reader will work? [Stephen Atkinson] I think  anything will work, I believe. I think   00:37:01.760 --> 00:37:07.840 you just use your camera on your phone and  it'll bring up like a web page essentially. 00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:14.960 [Shannon Ricles] Okay, and it said that, let's  see, another one here says- what labs do you   00:37:14.960 --> 00:37:21.680 use for preserving things you deem necessary?  [Stephen Atkinson] Well, we kind of have two here   00:37:21.680 --> 00:37:29.200 in North Carolina. We have our small lab at our  UAB office at the Underwater Archaeology Branch,   00:37:29.200 --> 00:37:35.360 that's basically been working on artifacts  on and off since the branches inception   00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:42.080 with the discovery of the blockade runner Modern  Greece. But our main lab now is focused at   00:37:42.080 --> 00:37:47.520 the Queen Anne's Revenge Conservation Lab in  Greenville, North Carolina. So their primary focus   00:37:47.520 --> 00:37:53.200 is obviously the materials raised from the Queen  Anne's Revenge, but if we have something that is,   00:37:53.200 --> 00:37:58.400 you know, extremely essential, they will also  treat plenty of other artifacts as needed. 00:37:58.400 --> 00:38:03.760 00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:08.880 [Mark Losavio] All right. And I think we have one last  question. Do you carbon date any of the wrecks? 00:38:11.280 --> 00:38:14.720 [Stephen Atkinson] I don't think we have with  any of these ones as of yet. I'm not sure.   00:38:15.680 --> 00:38:22.320 I'm not sure the viability of that, but  something to look into. But most of them,   00:38:23.040 --> 00:38:29.360 you know, these wooden shipwrecks are really  an aspect of historical archaeology. So we can,   00:38:30.160 --> 00:38:34.880 you know, pair with a historian and/or  do the documentary research ourselves,   00:38:34.880 --> 00:38:39.120 and really take a pretty good  shot at identifying the ship's   00:38:39.120 --> 00:38:45.280 name and age based off historical records.  That type of information is out there. I mean   00:38:45.280 --> 00:38:50.560 there's newspaper archives, there's insurance  record, all kinds of things that we can use to   00:38:51.200 --> 00:38:56.400 really identify shipwrecks without having  to get hyper scientific if we don't need to. 00:38:56.400 --> 00:39:02.960 [Shannon Ricles] Okay, great. Any other  questions do you see Mark that I didn't get to? 00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:12.400 [Mark Losvio] No, I think most of these questions  have been answered. [Shannon Ricles] Okay, all   00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:16.800 right. And I think there's a couple of personal  questions that we'll forward on to you Stephen.   00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:21.520 Somebody asked for your email address, and  you are in luck, because that's on this   00:39:21.520 --> 00:39:28.160 slide. [Stephen Atkinson] There we go. [Shannon Ricles] So if we did not get to  your question or if you have additional ones,   00:39:28.160 --> 00:39:32.080 you can always email Stephen directly to the  email address that's listed here on the screen.   00:39:32.640 --> 00:39:39.040 Also, be sure to check out the links in the  handout that in the handout section on the chat   00:39:39.040 --> 00:39:43.200 link there, and that's for more  information on North Carolina's   00:39:43.200 --> 00:39:46.080 Office of State Archaeology and  the research that they're doing. 00:39:49.120 --> 00:39:54.960 So once again, our this video will be captioned  and a recording of the presentation will be made   00:39:54.960 --> 00:40:00.000 available on the sanctuaries archived page  found at the URL listed here at the top.   00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:06.560 In addition, the webinar will be archived on  the Monitor National Marine Sanctuary's webinar   00:40:06.560 --> 00:40:11.760 website. And you can click on the multimedia  section in the toolbar to access the webinar   00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:16.240 box. You will also find future webinars  in that same section. Now don't worry,   00:40:16.240 --> 00:40:21.200 all of this information is going to be sent to you  in a follow-up email once the recording is ready,   00:40:21.200 --> 00:40:26.560 and that usually takes a couple of days.  We'll get the recording by today or tomorrow,   00:40:26.560 --> 00:40:31.280 but it takes our web team a couple of days to get  it up. So just be patient but it will be there. 00:40:34.480 --> 00:40:40.720 And this Thursday, we want you to tune back in  with us for on April 22nd at 4:00 p.m. Submerged   00:40:40.720 --> 00:40:46.480 North Carolina will present an educator workshop  with Jenna Hartley. She's a PhD student at North   00:40:46.480 --> 00:40:51.680 Carolina State University. Join us to learn more  about the research she has done with over 2 500   00:40:51.680 --> 00:40:55.760 North Carolina fourth and fifth graders,  who collected thousands of pounds of trash   00:40:55.760 --> 00:40:59.360 and have now become change agents  with their families and communities.   00:40:59.360 --> 00:41:03.600 Now although this webinar is aimed at  educators all are welcome to attend. 00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:10.400 And as we prepare for hurricane season,  you won't want to miss our Submerged North   00:41:10.400 --> 00:41:16.800 Carolina webinar on Tuesday, May 4th at 9:30  a.m Eastern time. It's early in the morning,   00:41:16.800 --> 00:41:21.760 but Mr. Andy Lotto, with the National Hurricane  Center will discuss the forecast process   00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:25.440 and how hurricanes impact the  Carolinas and Mid-Atlantic region.   00:41:26.960 --> 00:41:30.800 In addition the submerged North Carolina  series will also feature these upcoming   00:41:30.800 --> 00:41:35.200 webinars listed here. So be sure you tune  in for any of those that might interest you. 00:41:38.160 --> 00:41:41.920 And if you enjoyed this webinar, you can  also check out others in the National Marine   00:41:41.920 --> 00:41:48.320 Sanctuaries' webinar series. On May 1st at 3:00  pm Eastern time, you can join staff from NOAA   00:41:48.320 --> 00:41:53.360 on a virtual outdoor adventure from Ventura  Harbor in California, across the Santa Barbara   00:41:53.360 --> 00:41:58.400 Channel in Channel Islands National Marine  Sanctuary, to Anacapa and Santa Cruz islands. 00:42:00.720 --> 00:42:06.000 Lastly, as you exit the webinar, there is a short  survey for formal and informal educators. If you   00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:10.000 are an educator, NOAA would greatly appreciate  it if you would just take a minute or two   00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:14.960 to complete the survey. Your answers will help  NOAA develop future webinars to meet your needs,   00:42:14.960 --> 00:42:21.440 and your participation is voluntary, and your  answers will be completely anonymous. So once   00:42:21.440 --> 00:42:25.680 again we want to thank Stephen for a really  great presentation. And thank you for taking   00:42:25.680 --> 00:42:31.440 the time to join us today. Have a wonderful day  and this concludes the presentation. Thank you!