WEBVTT

1
00:00:04.900 --> 00:00:05.733
<v ->Good evening.</v>

2
00:00:05.733 --> 00:00:06.840
We're pleased to have you join us

3
00:00:06.840 --> 00:00:09.110
for our annual Seaside Chat speaker series

4
00:00:09.110 --> 00:00:11.810
about Ocean Topics Associated with Flower Garden Banks

5
00:00:11.810 --> 00:00:15.470
National Marine Sanctuary, and the Gulf of Mexico.

6
00:00:15.470 --> 00:00:16.630
This year, we're also part of

7
00:00:16.630 --> 00:00:18.580
the National Marine Sanctuaries Webinars series

8
00:00:18.580 --> 00:00:21.500
hosted by NOAA's Office of National Marine Sanctuaries

9
00:00:21.500 --> 00:00:25.630
as well as part of the OneNOAA Science Seminar Series.

10
00:00:25.630 --> 00:00:26.610
During the presentation,

11
00:00:26.610 --> 00:00:29.400
all attendees will be in listen only mode.

12
00:00:29.400 --> 00:00:31.580
You are welcome to type questions for the presenters

13
00:00:31.580 --> 00:00:34.740
into the questions box in the bottom of the control panel

14
00:00:34.740 --> 00:00:36.950
on the right hand side of your screen.

15
00:00:36.950 --> 00:00:39.130
This is the same area you can let us know about

16
00:00:39.130 --> 00:00:41.580
any technical issues you may be having.

17
00:00:41.580 --> 00:00:43.430
We will be monitoring incoming questions

18
00:00:43.430 --> 00:00:45.000
and technical issues,

19
00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:47.710
and we'll respond to them as soon as we can.

20
00:00:47.710 --> 00:00:50.570
We are recording this session and we'll post the recording

21
00:00:50.570 --> 00:00:52.480
to the National Marine Sanctuaries

22
00:00:52.480 --> 00:00:56.090
and Flower Garden Banks National Marine Sanctuary websites.

23
00:00:56.090 --> 00:00:58.710
We will notify registered participants via email

24
00:00:58.710 --> 00:01:01.130
when these recordings are available.

25
00:01:01.130 --> 00:01:02.960
And for those of you who are educators,

26
00:01:02.960 --> 00:01:05.680
we have provided a Manta Mysteries activity

27
00:01:05.680 --> 00:01:08.143
in the handouts pane of the control panel.

28
00:01:11.070 --> 00:01:13.220
I am Kelly Drinnen, Outreach Specialist

29
00:01:13.220 --> 00:01:15.700
with Flower Garden Banks National Marine Sanctuary

30
00:01:15.700 --> 00:01:17.660
and I'll be facilitating today's Webinar

31
00:01:17.660 --> 00:01:18.953
from Dickinson, Texas.

32
00:01:19.810 --> 00:01:20.980
Leslie Whaylen Clift,

33
00:01:20.980 --> 00:01:23.330
our Constituency Affairs Coordinator is also

34
00:01:23.330 --> 00:01:25.540
joining us from Galveston, Texas.

35
00:01:25.540 --> 00:01:26.610
Leslie will be helping me with

36
00:01:26.610 --> 00:01:28.810
the back end administration of this Webinar.

37
00:01:34.160 --> 00:01:36.570
NOAA manages a system of marine protected areas

38
00:01:36.570 --> 00:01:38.560
called national marine sanctuaries

39
00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:40.563
that are found throughout the US.

40
00:01:42.260 --> 00:01:44.480
National marine sanctuaries are special ocean areas

41
00:01:44.480 --> 00:01:48.200
set aside by Congress to protect for future generations.

42
00:01:48.200 --> 00:01:50.800
They're like national parks and national forests

43
00:01:50.800 --> 00:01:52.510
yet underwater.

44
00:01:52.510 --> 00:01:54.480
The National Marine Sanctuary system consists of

45
00:01:54.480 --> 00:01:57.570
15 marine protected areas that encompass more than

46
00:01:57.570 --> 00:02:01.770
600,000 square miles of marine and great lakes waters

47
00:02:01.770 --> 00:02:04.360
from Washington state to the Florida Keys

48
00:02:04.360 --> 00:02:07.510
and from Lake Huron to American Samoa.

49
00:02:07.510 --> 00:02:10.590
The system includes 14 national marine sanctuaries

50
00:02:10.590 --> 00:02:12.510
and Papahānaumokuākea

51
00:02:12.510 --> 00:02:15.650
and Rose Atoll Marine National Monuments.

52
00:02:15.650 --> 00:02:18.007
If you're doing the math, that adds up to 16.

53
00:02:18.007 --> 00:02:21.891
That's because the Rose Atoll Monument is inside

54
00:02:21.891 --> 00:02:24.893
National Marine Sanctuary of American Samoa.

55
00:02:35.800 --> 00:02:37.620
NOAA Office of National Marine Sanctuaries

56
00:02:37.620 --> 00:02:40.150
is mandated to conduct research, monitoring,

57
00:02:40.150 --> 00:02:44.170
resource protection, education, outreach, and of course,

58
00:02:44.170 --> 00:02:46.730
management of America's underwater treasures

59
00:02:46.730 --> 00:02:48.923
to preserve them for future generations.

60
00:02:50.330 --> 00:02:52.980
National marine sanctuaries are also living classrooms

61
00:02:52.980 --> 00:02:55.760
where people can see, touch and learn

62
00:02:55.760 --> 00:02:58.633
about the nation's great lakes and ocean treasures.

63
00:03:00.670 --> 00:03:02.790
Today's Seaside Chat Series is hosted by

64
00:03:02.790 --> 00:03:05.270
Flower Garden Banks National Marine Sanctuary,

65
00:03:05.270 --> 00:03:08.750
the only national marine sanctuary in the Gulf of Mexico.

66
00:03:08.750 --> 00:03:10.670
This sanctuary consists of three banks

67
00:03:10.670 --> 00:03:13.070
or small underwater mountains that are home

68
00:03:13.070 --> 00:03:15.460
to some of the healthiest coral reefs in the world

69
00:03:15.460 --> 00:03:17.830
and amazing algal-sponge community

70
00:03:17.830 --> 00:03:19.510
and deep reef habitats featuring

71
00:03:19.510 --> 00:03:21.800
an abundance of black coral.

72
00:03:21.800 --> 00:03:24.130
In January of this year, the sanctuary also published

73
00:03:24.130 --> 00:03:26.700
a final rule for expansion which will add portions

74
00:03:26.700 --> 00:03:29.423
of another 14 reefs and banks to the sanctuary.

75
00:03:31.940 --> 00:03:35.290
Today's presentation has both a global and local focus.

76
00:03:35.290 --> 00:03:37.190
Manta rays around the world are some of the most

77
00:03:37.190 --> 00:03:39.370
poorly studied ocean giants.

78
00:03:39.370 --> 00:03:41.900
They're threatened by fisheries, ship strikes,

79
00:03:41.900 --> 00:03:45.930
habitat degradation, and a suite of other human impacts.

80
00:03:45.930 --> 00:03:48.700
Many populations around the world are in decline,

81
00:03:48.700 --> 00:03:50.580
and the species was recently listed under

82
00:03:50.580 --> 00:03:53.110
the US Endangered Species Act.

83
00:03:53.110 --> 00:03:55.780
Closer to home, an undescribed species of manta ray

84
00:03:55.780 --> 00:03:57.420
has been hiding in plain sight

85
00:03:57.420 --> 00:04:00.500
at Flower Garden Banks National Marine Sanctuary.

86
00:04:00.500 --> 00:04:03.140
What are these rays doing off the coast of Texas?

87
00:04:03.140 --> 00:04:05.940
What are scientists learning about this population?

88
00:04:05.940 --> 00:04:07.873
And what remains to be discovered?

89
00:04:10.640 --> 00:04:13.970
Today, we welcome Joshua Stewart to answer these questions.

90
00:04:13.970 --> 00:04:16.620
Joshua is Associate Director of The Manta Trust

91
00:04:16.620 --> 00:04:19.260
and he will talk about the plight of these mysterious giants

92
00:04:19.260 --> 00:04:21.070
and what we are learning about populations

93
00:04:21.070 --> 00:04:22.313
in the Gulf of Mexico.

94
00:04:23.170 --> 00:04:26.830
Josh has been studying manta and devil rays since 2010

95
00:04:26.830 --> 00:04:30.100
and helped found The Manta Trust in 2011.

96
00:04:30.100 --> 00:04:33.220
His work covers a range of topics related to the biology,

97
00:04:33.220 --> 00:04:36.740
ecology and conservation of manta and devil rays.

98
00:04:36.740 --> 00:04:38.140
He first started working with the team

99
00:04:38.140 --> 00:04:40.640
at Flower Garden Banks National Marine Sanctuary

100
00:04:40.640 --> 00:04:45.370
as a NOAA Nancy Foster Scholar during his PhD studies.

101
00:04:45.370 --> 00:04:47.193
In addition to his work with mantas,

102
00:04:48.051 --> 00:04:49.550
Josh is a research associate for

103
00:04:49.550 --> 00:04:52.230
The NOAA Marine Mammal and Turtle division,

104
00:04:52.230 --> 00:04:54.310
where he studies the population dynamics

105
00:04:54.310 --> 00:04:56.700
of several whale species.

106
00:04:56.700 --> 00:04:57.833
Welcome, Josh.

107
00:05:02.810 --> 00:05:03.643
<v ->Thanks Kelly.</v>

108
00:05:06.025 --> 00:05:08.347
<v ->And there we go. Handing over the controls.</v>

109
00:05:10.410 --> 00:05:12.723
<v ->Let's see if we can get it working.</v>

110
00:05:14.640 --> 00:05:15.473 line:15% 
How's that look?

111
00:05:16.350 --> 00:05:18.053 line:15% 
<v ->That looks good. We're ready.</v>

112
00:05:18.970 --> 00:05:22.940 line:15% 
<v ->So that headshot that you had of me is outdated.</v>

113
00:05:22.940 --> 00:05:25.030 line:15% 
I've had really short hair for years now

114
00:05:25.030 --> 00:05:28.469 line:15% 
but the pandemic has (inaudible) things.

115
00:05:28.469 --> 00:05:29.819 line:15% 
It's back out to long hair.

116
00:05:31.000 --> 00:05:32.650 line:15% 
I don't know. That says something.

117
00:05:33.720 --> 00:05:36.368 line:15% 
Wow, thanks everybody for being here.

118
00:05:36.368 --> 00:05:38.920 line:15% 
It's pretty cool to see 500 people online.

119
00:05:38.920 --> 00:05:41.420 line:15% 
I guess that might also be a sign of the pandemic.

120
00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:45.340 line:15% 
People are running out of things to do at home,

121
00:05:45.340 --> 00:05:47.060 line:15% 
but it's cool to see you all here

122
00:05:47.060 --> 00:05:50.020 line:15% 
and hopefully you enjoy this talk

123
00:05:50.020 --> 00:05:53.823 line:15% 
and all these fun photos and videos and facts about mantas.

124
00:05:54.810 --> 00:05:57.420 line:15% 
I'll just introduce myself a little bit more.

125
00:05:57.420 --> 00:06:00.770
I've been working with these really amazing animals

126
00:06:02.452 --> 00:06:04.390
for almost 11 years now.

127
00:06:04.390 --> 00:06:06.540
And I've been really, really privileged

128
00:06:06.540 --> 00:06:09.030
to get to spend a lot of time with them

129
00:06:09.030 --> 00:06:10.570
in the wild, in the water.

130
00:06:10.570 --> 00:06:14.140
They're really amazing animals to be around.

131
00:06:14.140 --> 00:06:15.390
The field work is definitely one

132
00:06:15.390 --> 00:06:16.980
of my favorite parts of the job.

133
00:06:16.980 --> 00:06:21.500
And I've also been missing that quite a bit this past year,

134
00:06:21.500 --> 00:06:24.420
a lot more time behind the computer than I usually like.

135
00:06:24.420 --> 00:06:27.361
So hopefully this talk will be a little bit

136
00:06:27.361 --> 00:06:30.830
of an exciting trip for all of us, myself included

137
00:06:30.830 --> 00:06:33.853
since I'm missing these field expeditions myself.

138
00:06:34.980 --> 00:06:36.993
So they're really fantastic animals.

139
00:06:37.970 --> 00:06:40.170
I've gotten to do things like tag them

140
00:06:40.170 --> 00:06:42.380
to figure out where they go,

141
00:06:42.380 --> 00:06:44.390
use a bunch of different methods to figure out

142
00:06:44.390 --> 00:06:46.210
what habitats they use,

143
00:06:46.210 --> 00:06:47.043
what they eat.

144
00:06:47.043 --> 00:06:51.000
Some interesting things like sticking cameras on their heads

145
00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:53.940
with suction cups has been some of the more unusual

146
00:06:53.940 --> 00:06:56.490
and exciting work that I've gotten to do with them.

147
00:06:57.460 --> 00:07:00.320
And just get to be around them and observe some

148
00:07:00.320 --> 00:07:03.390
really unique behaviors and appreciate them

149
00:07:03.390 --> 00:07:05.360
for these really amazing

150
00:07:05.360 --> 00:07:08.100
and also mysterious animals that they are.

151
00:07:08.100 --> 00:07:12.090
So my goals for the presentation today are to give all

152
00:07:12.090 --> 00:07:15.300
of you some basic information about manta rays.

153
00:07:15.300 --> 00:07:17.400
Get you up to speed on what we know about them,

154
00:07:17.400 --> 00:07:19.220
some basic facts.

155
00:07:19.220 --> 00:07:21.900
And then I also wanna share some of the work

156
00:07:21.900 --> 00:07:24.670
that I and others have been doing with these animals

157
00:07:24.670 --> 00:07:29.420
that have resulted in some unexpected

158
00:07:29.420 --> 00:07:31.740
surprises about their ecology and biology

159
00:07:31.740 --> 00:07:34.150
that we may not have otherwise known.

160
00:07:34.150 --> 00:07:36.970
And so we've discovered a lot of things about these animals

161
00:07:36.970 --> 00:07:38.470
over the past decade.

162
00:07:38.470 --> 00:07:41.390
As Kelly mentioned, they used to be and remain

163
00:07:41.390 --> 00:07:43.430
one of the most poorly studied

164
00:07:43.430 --> 00:07:47.193
of the really large marine megafauna in the oceans.

165
00:07:48.130 --> 00:07:50.510
But we have learned a lot in this last decade.

166
00:07:50.510 --> 00:07:53.540
There's been a lot more focused scientific attention,

167
00:07:53.540 --> 00:07:55.400
and I'm gonna focus on a few of those things

168
00:07:55.400 --> 00:07:58.000
that we've learned that I think are most interesting.

169
00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:00.120
And then I'm gonna circle back around

170
00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:04.470
to the Flower Garden Banks and how these new discoveries

171
00:08:04.470 --> 00:08:06.180
tie into what we're learning about

172
00:08:06.180 --> 00:08:07.913
the Flower Garden Banks mantas.

173
00:08:09.544 --> 00:08:11.890
<v ->[Kelly[ Are you ready for your first poll question?</v>

174
00:08:11.890 --> 00:08:14.110
<v ->Yeah, let's do that first poll question.</v>

175
00:08:14.110 --> 00:08:16.700
So thank you, Kelly.

176
00:08:16.700 --> 00:08:18.560
I can't see these poll questions.

177
00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:21.030
So Kelly's gonna send this one out.

178
00:08:21.030 --> 00:08:23.490
I wanna know how many of you have actually gotten

179
00:08:23.490 --> 00:08:26.310
to see a manta in the wild.

180
00:08:26.310 --> 00:08:27.750
And you can go ahead and answer that

181
00:08:27.750 --> 00:08:30.140
and I'm just gonna continue presenting

182
00:08:30.140 --> 00:08:35.140
and then maybe Kelly, you can, oh, I do see.

183
00:08:35.160 --> 00:08:36.360
There's a poll up there.

184
00:08:37.330 --> 00:08:38.930
<v Kelly>Have you ever seen a manta ray in the wild?</v>

185
00:08:38.930 --> 00:08:41.360
Please make a selection on the screen

186
00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:44.430
and we'll give it about 30 to 45 seconds

187
00:08:44.430 --> 00:08:48.170
for people to respond and then we will close the poll

188
00:08:48.170 --> 00:08:50.550
and share the results with Josh.

189
00:08:50.550 --> 00:08:52.260
<v ->Great. So I'm gonna keep on talking</v>

190
00:08:52.260 --> 00:08:53.390
and then in a couple of slides,

191
00:08:53.390 --> 00:08:55.810
I'll check back in and see where we're at. How's that?

192
00:08:55.810 --> 00:08:56.910
<v Kelly>Sounds good.</v>

193
00:08:58.750 --> 00:09:02.880
<v ->So one of the things that obviously intrigues people</v>

194
00:09:02.880 --> 00:09:05.780
about mantas most is their size.

195
00:09:05.780 --> 00:09:08.420
These are really enormous animals.

196
00:09:08.420 --> 00:09:10.690
The biggest of the manta is the oceanic manta,

197
00:09:10.690 --> 00:09:13.270
they can reach sizes up to a maximum

198
00:09:13.270 --> 00:09:17.890
of close to 25 feet across, which is enormous.

199
00:09:17.890 --> 00:09:21.090
And they're so gentle. They're so friendly.

200
00:09:21.090 --> 00:09:23.000
They don't have big teeth or anything.

201
00:09:23.000 --> 00:09:24.070
They're not aggressive.

202
00:09:24.070 --> 00:09:25.730
They're really gentle giants.

203
00:09:25.730 --> 00:09:29.460
So they're one of these unusual, enormous animals

204
00:09:29.460 --> 00:09:31.650
that you can really spend a lot of time,

205
00:09:31.650 --> 00:09:32.780
pretty close up with.

206
00:09:32.780 --> 00:09:35.730
They're really interactive and they engage with

207
00:09:35.730 --> 00:09:37.270
divers quite a bit.

208
00:09:37.270 --> 00:09:39.520
And I see that just over half of the audience

209
00:09:39.520 --> 00:09:43.440
or at least half of the respondees have actually seen

210
00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:44.310
a manta in the wild.

211
00:09:44.310 --> 00:09:45.410
So that's pretty cool.

212
00:09:46.622 --> 00:09:47.455
And for those of you who haven't,

213
00:09:47.455 --> 00:09:50.890
hopefully you can maybe experience some of the odd

214
00:09:50.890 --> 00:09:53.040
that we do when we get to see them in the wild

215
00:09:53.040 --> 00:09:55.130
just from these photos.

216
00:09:55.130 --> 00:09:57.920
So from this photo, you can see first just how big they are

217
00:09:57.920 --> 00:10:01.100
but also how close you can get to them.

218
00:10:01.100 --> 00:10:04.130
They will actually approach you in the water.

219
00:10:04.130 --> 00:10:07.740
And they've got these really enormous brains.

220
00:10:07.740 --> 00:10:10.380
They've got the largest brain of any fish

221
00:10:10.380 --> 00:10:12.920
and one of the largest brain to body mass ratios

222
00:10:12.920 --> 00:10:15.321
which tells us a little bit about

223
00:10:15.321 --> 00:10:17.390
their potential intelligence levels.

224
00:10:17.390 --> 00:10:18.580
And you can really feel that

225
00:10:18.580 --> 00:10:19.610
when you're in the water with them.

226
00:10:19.610 --> 00:10:21.740
They spend a lot of time really checking you out,

227
00:10:21.740 --> 00:10:25.037
investigating you, looking at you eye to eye.

228
00:10:27.870 --> 00:10:31.640
They're in a larger group called the manta and devil rays.

229
00:10:31.640 --> 00:10:33.510
And they're not the only ones,

230
00:10:33.510 --> 00:10:35.160
we hear probably most about the mantas.

231
00:10:35.160 --> 00:10:38.140
And we also know the most about the mantas,

232
00:10:38.140 --> 00:10:40.710
partly because they're so popular with dive tourists.

233
00:10:40.710 --> 00:10:43.680
And we know where we can find them for the most part.

234
00:10:43.680 --> 00:10:46.290
But there are a lot of other species in this

235
00:10:46.290 --> 00:10:49.053
manta and devil ray group or the genus Mobula.

236
00:10:49.900 --> 00:10:51.830
Some of them are actually quite small.

237
00:10:51.830 --> 00:10:53.530
So not all of the manta and devil rays

238
00:10:53.530 --> 00:10:55.113
are these enormous animals.

239
00:10:57.710 --> 00:11:00.413
It depends, they are between nine and 11 species.

240
00:11:01.273 --> 00:11:02.900
And I hope that this will highlight to you

241
00:11:02.900 --> 00:11:06.080
how much there still is for us to learn about these animals.

242
00:11:06.080 --> 00:11:08.930
We can't even tell you how many species there are right now.

243
00:11:08.930 --> 00:11:13.040
It changes every time somebody does a new genetic analysis.

244
00:11:13.040 --> 00:11:15.500
Every few years, it gets updated and we change the number

245
00:11:15.500 --> 00:11:18.000
of manta and devil rays that there are.

246
00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:19.730
So we think of the oceanic mantas

247
00:11:19.730 --> 00:11:21.850
as these real ocean giants.

248
00:11:21.850 --> 00:11:24.280
And there are a couple of other manta species

249
00:11:24.280 --> 00:11:25.320
but we do get some of these

250
00:11:25.320 --> 00:11:28.310
really small pygmy devil rays as well,

251
00:11:28.310 --> 00:11:30.300
which sometimes don't get any bigger

252
00:11:30.300 --> 00:11:32.890
than about three feet across.

253
00:11:32.890 --> 00:11:35.170
So a lot of diversity in size

254
00:11:35.170 --> 00:11:38.250
and a little bit of diversity in habitat use as well.

255
00:11:38.250 --> 00:11:40.900
But one thing that all of these guys share in common,

256
00:11:42.660 --> 00:11:45.260
I'll note that I can't see what slides are coming

257
00:11:45.260 --> 00:11:48.450
because I'm in presenter view or I'm not in presenter view.

258
00:11:48.450 --> 00:11:52.290
So if I accidentally start on another topic

259
00:11:52.290 --> 00:11:55.730
and then I find out that I actually had another slide here

260
00:11:55.730 --> 00:11:57.083
I'll just about face.

261
00:11:58.673 --> 00:12:02.700
There are two different species of manta rays

262
00:12:02.700 --> 00:12:05.750
on top of about eight or nine species of devil rays.

263
00:12:05.750 --> 00:12:08.380
We've got the oceanic mantas,

264
00:12:08.380 --> 00:12:10.240
which as their name suggests they live in these

265
00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:14.660
more open ocean, pelagic, open water habitats.

266
00:12:14.660 --> 00:12:16.700
And then we've got the reef manta rays.

267
00:12:16.700 --> 00:12:20.050
And these ones, they're a little bit more resident

268
00:12:20.050 --> 00:12:23.090
to reef habitats in the tropics.

269
00:12:23.090 --> 00:12:25.510
So they tend to stick a bit closer to shore.

270
00:12:25.510 --> 00:12:27.900
And most people who have gone diving

271
00:12:27.900 --> 00:12:32.200
or snorkeling with mantas have probably seen reef mantas.

272
00:12:32.200 --> 00:12:35.650
And until 2009, we actually did not know that

273
00:12:35.650 --> 00:12:37.260
these were different species.

274
00:12:37.260 --> 00:12:40.540
They were also hiding in plain sight

275
00:12:40.540 --> 00:12:43.690
because they're not often together in the same place.

276
00:12:43.690 --> 00:12:46.230
So they look similar enough that it was confusing

277
00:12:46.230 --> 00:12:48.020
and we didn't learn until 2009

278
00:12:48.020 --> 00:12:50.073
that those are two separate species.

279
00:12:52.300 --> 00:12:53.150
Once you know what you're looking for,

280
00:12:53.150 --> 00:12:56.420
they're pretty, relatively easy to tell apart.

281
00:12:56.420 --> 00:12:59.260
They've got some visual characteristics

282
00:12:59.260 --> 00:13:01.563
that are pretty consistent across species.

283
00:13:02.400 --> 00:13:04.960
Oceanic mantas always have a black mouth,

284
00:13:04.960 --> 00:13:06.900
reef mantas always have a white mouth.

285
00:13:06.900 --> 00:13:10.420
And then these little epaulets or shoulder patches

286
00:13:10.420 --> 00:13:12.400
are very different between the species.

287
00:13:12.400 --> 00:13:14.410
And there's not gonna be a test on this or anything.

288
00:13:14.410 --> 00:13:16.320
You don't have to remember this.

289
00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:17.860
This is just to say that once you know

290
00:13:17.860 --> 00:13:20.350
what you're looking for, it's pretty easy to tell

291
00:13:20.350 --> 00:13:23.803
if you're looking at an oceanic manta or a reef manta ray.

292
00:13:24.970 --> 00:13:29.440
We also know from genetic evidence that in the Atlantic,

293
00:13:29.440 --> 00:13:32.280
the Caribbean and the Gulf of Mexico,

294
00:13:32.280 --> 00:13:34.730
there's a third manta species.

295
00:13:34.730 --> 00:13:36.673
And it hasn't yet been described,

296
00:13:37.660 --> 00:13:38.950
for now we're calling it

297
00:13:38.950 --> 00:13:40.980
the Caribbean or the Atlantic manta.

298
00:13:40.980 --> 00:13:44.120
It's not an official species, but we do know

299
00:13:44.120 --> 00:13:47.790
from this genetic evidence that these little orange dots

300
00:13:47.790 --> 00:13:50.170
in the bottom right corner are genetically very,

301
00:13:50.170 --> 00:13:53.300
very different from either reef mantas in red

302
00:13:53.300 --> 00:13:55.070
or oceanic mantas in blue.

303
00:13:55.070 --> 00:13:57.410
And then there's this one really curious little guy

304
00:13:57.410 --> 00:13:59.290
who's hanging out between oceanic mantas

305
00:13:59.290 --> 00:14:01.140
and Caribbean mantas.

306
00:14:01.140 --> 00:14:02.300
And I'm gonna come back to that,

307
00:14:02.300 --> 00:14:05.340
I'll circle around to that at the end of the talk.

308
00:14:05.340 --> 00:14:06.910
I'm leaving these little cookie crumbs

309
00:14:06.910 --> 00:14:08.920
and then we're gonna tie them all together

310
00:14:08.920 --> 00:14:11.320
when we start talking about Flower Garden Banks.

311
00:14:14.230 --> 00:14:15.063
There we go.

312
00:14:15.980 --> 00:14:19.030
So now what's so interesting about this third species

313
00:14:19.030 --> 00:14:23.400
is that visually it has a huge amount of diversity.

314
00:14:23.400 --> 00:14:27.150
And that makes it really, really hard to be able to say,

315
00:14:27.150 --> 00:14:28.890
am I looking at an oceanic manta?

316
00:14:28.890 --> 00:14:32.540
Am I looking at one of these Atlantic's/Caribbean mantas?

317
00:14:32.540 --> 00:14:35.150
Because there's actually more of this.

318
00:14:35.150 --> 00:14:37.210
We call it morphological diversity,

319
00:14:37.210 --> 00:14:40.650
more diversity in the physical characteristics

320
00:14:40.650 --> 00:14:44.880
and the coloration patterns within this species

321
00:14:44.880 --> 00:14:48.760
than there is between the oceanic and the reef mantas.

322
00:14:48.760 --> 00:14:50.890
And that's one of the reasons that

323
00:14:50.890 --> 00:14:52.430
there's not a formal description.

324
00:14:52.430 --> 00:14:54.403
This isn't an official species yet.

325
00:14:55.240 --> 00:14:57.720
'Cause it's been really challenging to find features

326
00:14:57.720 --> 00:15:02.330
that uniformly can distinctly characterize it

327
00:15:02.330 --> 00:15:05.920
as this species versus an oceanic manta let's say.

328
00:15:05.920 --> 00:15:08.450
So we know that genetically they're distinct,

329
00:15:08.450 --> 00:15:11.310
but morphologically we're still trying to figure out

330
00:15:11.310 --> 00:15:13.610
exactly what we can use to characterize

331
00:15:13.610 --> 00:15:15.023
these different species.

332
00:15:16.890 --> 00:15:20.680
So that is the mysterious third species that we know exists

333
00:15:20.680 --> 00:15:23.910
but we're having trouble identifying who is hanging out

334
00:15:23.910 --> 00:15:28.400
in the Gulf of Mexico and the Caribbean and in the Atlantic.

335
00:15:28.400 --> 00:15:30.210
One thing that all of the manta and devil rays

336
00:15:30.210 --> 00:15:34.030
have in common is that they feed on zooplanktons.

337
00:15:34.030 --> 00:15:35.410
So they're filter feeders,

338
00:15:35.410 --> 00:15:39.000
which means that they open up their gigantic mouths

339
00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:41.970
and they filter huge amounts of water.

340
00:15:41.970 --> 00:15:46.970
They have these really, really cool specialized,

341
00:15:47.090 --> 00:15:48.340
we call them gill rakers.

342
00:15:48.340 --> 00:15:50.790
They are these cartilaginous structures

343
00:15:50.790 --> 00:15:52.910
that surround their gills.

344
00:15:52.910 --> 00:15:55.880
And they use those as a sieve to filter out

345
00:15:55.880 --> 00:15:58.670
mainly zooplankton from the water.

346
00:15:58.670 --> 00:16:00.320
So they don't have big teeth,

347
00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:02.010
they've got these kind of like microscopic

348
00:16:02.010 --> 00:16:04.850
sandpapery teeth on their jaws.

349
00:16:04.850 --> 00:16:07.550
But they are totally harmless if you're bigger

350
00:16:07.550 --> 00:16:09.363
than the size of a small fish.

351
00:16:10.260 --> 00:16:13.640
If you're a zooplankton, they're a horrible predator.

352
00:16:13.640 --> 00:16:15.810
But for those of us who are big enough to escape

353
00:16:15.810 --> 00:16:18.920
their mouths, they're gentle giants.

354
00:16:18.920 --> 00:16:21.790
So if you can imagine when you see a manta

355
00:16:21.790 --> 00:16:23.900
they look like these flat disks

356
00:16:23.900 --> 00:16:25.810
that are really hydrodynamic.

357
00:16:25.810 --> 00:16:28.880
But as soon as they open up their gigantic mouths,

358
00:16:28.880 --> 00:16:32.020
suddenly it's like dragging a big sea anchor around.

359
00:16:32.020 --> 00:16:35.810
And so that actually costs them a lot of energy

360
00:16:35.810 --> 00:16:38.610
in order to feed with an open mouth.

361
00:16:38.610 --> 00:16:40.280
And so they've developed all these different

362
00:16:40.280 --> 00:16:44.090
strategies to maximize their foraging efficiency.

363
00:16:44.090 --> 00:16:46.210
And one of them is these big lobes,

364
00:16:46.210 --> 00:16:49.090
we call them cephalic fins, that unroll.

365
00:16:49.090 --> 00:16:51.210
So they look like horns when they're all rolled up

366
00:16:51.210 --> 00:16:55.100
and then they unroll and they can help the manta channel

367
00:16:55.100 --> 00:16:57.690
water and plankton into its mouth.

368
00:16:57.690 --> 00:16:59.770
So that, on the individual level, allows them

369
00:16:59.770 --> 00:17:02.410
to help maximize that forging efficiency.

370
00:17:02.410 --> 00:17:04.170
But there are also lots of these really interesting

371
00:17:04.170 --> 00:17:06.590
social behaviors where for example,

372
00:17:06.590 --> 00:17:09.030
they'll stack up in a line

373
00:17:09.030 --> 00:17:11.070
which you're looking at on the left here.

374
00:17:11.070 --> 00:17:14.130
One manta above and behind the next one.

375
00:17:14.130 --> 00:17:16.380
And the reason they do that is because if you're a little

376
00:17:16.380 --> 00:17:19.850
zooplankton and there's a big manta bearing down on you,

377
00:17:19.850 --> 00:17:22.780
there's not much you can do to escape that manta.

378
00:17:22.780 --> 00:17:25.390
But you can jump pretty quickly in the water.

379
00:17:25.390 --> 00:17:28.470
You can make a really rapid jump up or down.

380
00:17:28.470 --> 00:17:30.700
And so the mantas position themselves

381
00:17:30.700 --> 00:17:33.080
so that if the zooplankton jumps to avoid the manta

382
00:17:33.080 --> 00:17:35.680
in front of it, it just gets scooped up into the mouth

383
00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:37.660
of the manta behind it.

384
00:17:37.660 --> 00:17:42.520
We also see a really famous manta feeding behavior,

385
00:17:42.520 --> 00:17:44.020
these barrel rolls.

386
00:17:44.020 --> 00:17:46.300
And this is where they'll find a really dense patch

387
00:17:46.300 --> 00:17:48.450
of plankton and just continuously loop

388
00:17:48.450 --> 00:17:50.520
through it again and again.

389
00:17:50.520 --> 00:17:53.170
Again, making sure that they're hitting the richest patch

390
00:17:53.170 --> 00:17:55.970
of plankton to maximize their efficiency.

391
00:17:55.970 --> 00:17:58.180
And then we see some really extraordinary,

392
00:17:58.180 --> 00:18:01.610
social, cooperative feeding behaviors like this one

393
00:18:01.610 --> 00:18:04.740
on the bottom right, from the Maldives, where you can get

394
00:18:04.740 --> 00:18:08.540
up to around 250 of these reef manta rays

395
00:18:08.540 --> 00:18:11.980
all feeding in this big cyclone formation

396
00:18:11.980 --> 00:18:14.650
on these really dense patches of plankton.

397
00:18:14.650 --> 00:18:17.030
So there's some really, really extraordinary

398
00:18:17.030 --> 00:18:20.750
adaptations that they've developed in order to maximize

399
00:18:20.750 --> 00:18:22.003
that feeding efficiency.

400
00:18:23.890 --> 00:18:25.933
So how long do mantas live?

401
00:18:27.500 --> 00:18:30.770
That's a good question and I don't have a perfect answer

402
00:18:30.770 --> 00:18:34.110
for you because one of the only ways that we can tell

403
00:18:34.110 --> 00:18:37.880
how long mantas live is by photographing

404
00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:41.310
or tracking individual mantas across time.

405
00:18:41.310 --> 00:18:45.200
So this particular manta here was seen twice

406
00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:48.340
in the Maldives, approximately 30 years apart.

407
00:18:48.340 --> 00:18:50.370
And there are some records of this where mantas

408
00:18:50.370 --> 00:18:54.140
have been seen with up to 40 or 50 year gaps.

409
00:18:54.140 --> 00:18:55.560
And so we know that they can live

410
00:18:55.560 --> 00:18:57.620
for at least 40 or 50 years.

411
00:18:57.620 --> 00:18:59.740
But we don't know perhaps they could live

412
00:18:59.740 --> 00:19:01.690
much longer than that.

413
00:19:01.690 --> 00:19:04.220
And the way that we can identify these mantas and track them

414
00:19:04.220 --> 00:19:08.200
over time is with these unique spot patterns

415
00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:10.540
that they have on their bellies.

416
00:19:10.540 --> 00:19:12.850
So every manta has its own spot pattern,

417
00:19:12.850 --> 00:19:15.620
we think of them as a fingerprint.

418
00:19:15.620 --> 00:19:17.070
They don't change over time.

419
00:19:17.070 --> 00:19:18.650
So they stay constant from the day

420
00:19:18.650 --> 00:19:21.090
that that manta is born until it dies.

421
00:19:21.090 --> 00:19:22.620
And because they're so unique,

422
00:19:22.620 --> 00:19:25.300
we can, as you see there's a lot of diversity

423
00:19:25.300 --> 00:19:27.027
in these spot patterns.

424
00:19:27.027 --> 00:19:28.670
So once we have a photo of a manta,

425
00:19:28.670 --> 00:19:31.520
if we get another photo of its belly,

426
00:19:31.520 --> 00:19:34.370
we can say with confidence, this is the same manta,

427
00:19:34.370 --> 00:19:35.360
this is a new manta.

428
00:19:35.360 --> 00:19:38.170
Here's the last time we saw it and so forth.

429
00:19:38.170 --> 00:19:40.350
And this photo identification is a really,

430
00:19:40.350 --> 00:19:42.063
really important tool for us.

431
00:19:43.270 --> 00:19:45.810
It helps us track individuals across space,

432
00:19:45.810 --> 00:19:47.980
so if they move over long distances

433
00:19:47.980 --> 00:19:49.940
and we get photos of them in different places

434
00:19:49.940 --> 00:19:52.240
that tells us about how they're moving.

435
00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:54.260
It tells us how long they live,

436
00:19:54.260 --> 00:19:56.707
tells us how many there are in many places.

437
00:19:56.707 --> 00:19:58.220
And a lot of these contributions

438
00:19:58.220 --> 00:20:00.560
actually come from scuba divers,

439
00:20:00.560 --> 00:20:03.360
not necessarily from scientists,

440
00:20:03.360 --> 00:20:06.440
but from recreational scuba divers who see a manta,

441
00:20:06.440 --> 00:20:08.420
who get a a photo of its belly.

442
00:20:08.420 --> 00:20:10.010
They can send that to our database.

443
00:20:10.010 --> 00:20:12.910
And then we can hopefully tell them who that manta is

444
00:20:12.910 --> 00:20:15.923
and include it in our research.

445
00:20:17.520 --> 00:20:20.820
So that's really important because as I mentioned,

446
00:20:20.820 --> 00:20:23.810
one of the only ways that we are able to tell

447
00:20:23.810 --> 00:20:26.810
how old mantas are and how long they live is through

448
00:20:26.810 --> 00:20:30.770
those recaptures or multiple photographs of individuals.

449
00:20:30.770 --> 00:20:33.590
And normally the way that we might do this,

450
00:20:33.590 --> 00:20:35.610
in let's say, a shark species to figure out

451
00:20:35.610 --> 00:20:37.220
how old sharks get,

452
00:20:37.220 --> 00:20:40.070
is if we have a dead shark that washes up

453
00:20:40.070 --> 00:20:42.040
in a fishery or gets caught.

454
00:20:42.040 --> 00:20:45.980
We can take its vertebrae and we can cut a little section

455
00:20:45.980 --> 00:20:49.700
and then we can count basically tree rings,

456
00:20:49.700 --> 00:20:52.160
growth rings in that vertebrae.

457
00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:56.300
And that tells us how many years that shark has been alive.

458
00:20:56.300 --> 00:20:57.810
And this vertebrae is actually

459
00:20:57.810 --> 00:21:00.650
from one of the smaller devil rays.

460
00:21:00.650 --> 00:21:03.450
So some people have had some success with aging

461
00:21:03.450 --> 00:21:04.950
smaller devil rays.

462
00:21:04.950 --> 00:21:07.160
And we know from that, that they can live for

463
00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:09.390
at least 15 or 20 years.

464
00:21:09.390 --> 00:21:12.700
But so far we haven't been able to do this with mantas

465
00:21:12.700 --> 00:21:15.240
because their vertebraes don't calcify enough

466
00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:18.260
for us to be able to detect these growth rings.

467
00:21:18.260 --> 00:21:22.030
So just another example of how mysterious these animals are

468
00:21:23.056 --> 00:21:25.450
and I'll circle back to this again and again.

469
00:21:25.450 --> 00:21:29.490
There's so much about mantas that we just don't know

470
00:21:29.490 --> 00:21:32.260
and that we might not know for a really long time.

471
00:21:32.260 --> 00:21:34.993
And I think that makes them pretty exciting to work on.

472
00:21:36.620 --> 00:21:40.260
So they live for a very long time, 40 to 50 years.

473
00:21:40.260 --> 00:21:43.180
Incredibly these animals give birth

474
00:21:43.180 --> 00:21:46.430
to only one pup per pregnancy.

475
00:21:46.430 --> 00:21:49.460
So to put that in context, a lot of other sharks,

476
00:21:49.460 --> 00:21:52.640
they might have five or 10 pups per litter.

477
00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:54.350
Whale sharks, we think they might have

478
00:21:54.350 --> 00:21:56.800
over 100 pups per litter.

479
00:21:56.800 --> 00:22:00.310
Mantas just have one pup per pregnancy.

480
00:22:00.310 --> 00:22:03.080
And these pups come out fully formed

481
00:22:03.080 --> 00:22:05.500
in these little manta burritos.

482
00:22:05.500 --> 00:22:09.880
So they're already about one and a half to two meters wide.

483
00:22:09.880 --> 00:22:13.070
So about six feet wide when they're born

484
00:22:13.070 --> 00:22:15.240
and they're fully self-sufficient,

485
00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:16.650
there's no maternal care.

486
00:22:16.650 --> 00:22:18.860
They're big and they're ready to go.

487
00:22:18.860 --> 00:22:21.040
And I'm gonna talk about this in the context of

488
00:22:21.040 --> 00:22:24.020
Flower Garden Banks a little bit later as well.

489
00:22:24.020 --> 00:22:26.950
But think about that one pup per pregnancy.

490
00:22:26.950 --> 00:22:29.560
And they take about a year to come to term,

491
00:22:29.560 --> 00:22:32.320
so the pregnancy period is one year.

492
00:22:32.320 --> 00:22:34.770
And mantas don't reach sexual maturity

493
00:22:34.770 --> 00:22:37.210
until they're five to 10 years old.

494
00:22:37.210 --> 00:22:39.870
And there can be gaps in between pregnancies

495
00:22:39.870 --> 00:22:41.910
anywhere from two to seven years,

496
00:22:41.910 --> 00:22:44.740
depending on the species and the location.

497
00:22:44.740 --> 00:22:46.940
So to contextualize that,

498
00:22:46.940 --> 00:22:50.470
that's approximately the same reproductive rate

499
00:22:50.470 --> 00:22:51.713
as an elephant.

500
00:22:52.710 --> 00:22:55.370
And I'll just let that sink in because that is wild

501
00:22:55.370 --> 00:22:59.270
for a fish to have a reproductive rate about the same

502
00:22:59.270 --> 00:23:02.083
as an elephant, extraordinarily slow.

503
00:23:04.374 --> 00:23:06.424
We don't know much about these juveniles.

504
00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:09.240
I don't think there's ever been

505
00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:13.410
a single documented live birth in the wild.

506
00:23:13.410 --> 00:23:16.090
We don't know much about where the juveniles go.

507
00:23:16.090 --> 00:23:19.940
And that has remained a big question mark for us,

508
00:23:19.940 --> 00:23:22.310
which we're starting to learn a little bit about

509
00:23:22.310 --> 00:23:23.730
at Flower Garden Banks.

510
00:23:23.730 --> 00:23:27.053
So hold on to that and I'll come back around.

511
00:23:28.150 --> 00:23:29.333
So quick recap.

512
00:23:30.230 --> 00:23:32.990
We know that mantas are big animals.

513
00:23:32.990 --> 00:23:35.690
They live for a long time.

514
00:23:35.690 --> 00:23:39.090
They've got these extraordinarily low reproductive rates

515
00:23:39.090 --> 00:23:41.950
and separately, as far as we can tell,

516
00:23:41.950 --> 00:23:44.300
they've got pretty small population sizes.

517
00:23:44.300 --> 00:23:48.330
So a few hundreds to a few thousand animals per population,

518
00:23:48.330 --> 00:23:50.270
as far as we can tell.

519
00:23:50.270 --> 00:23:52.580
So if you put all these things together,

520
00:23:52.580 --> 00:23:56.120
we end up with a species that is incredibly vulnerable

521
00:23:56.120 --> 00:23:58.323
to any kind of fisheries pressure.

522
00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:02.020
And sure enough, like just about everything

523
00:24:02.020 --> 00:24:03.220
that lives in the ocean,

524
00:24:03.220 --> 00:24:06.160
there are fisheries for these animals.

525
00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:09.000
Back in 2010, one of the things that really intrigued me

526
00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:12.890
about mantas was that suddenly there were these growing

527
00:24:12.890 --> 00:24:16.000
targeted fisheries for manta and devil rays

528
00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:19.530
where fishers were specifically catching them.

529
00:24:19.530 --> 00:24:22.453
And normally, the meat is not very good quality.

530
00:24:24.670 --> 00:24:27.230
We don't think of them as a target species,

531
00:24:27.230 --> 00:24:28.910
a high value species.

532
00:24:28.910 --> 00:24:31.890
Certainly not for meat in most places.

533
00:24:31.890 --> 00:24:33.990
So it turned out that they were being targeted

534
00:24:33.990 --> 00:24:36.100
specifically for those gill plates,

535
00:24:36.100 --> 00:24:38.720
those structures that allow them to

536
00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:41.900
filter out zooplankton as they're feeding.

537
00:24:41.900 --> 00:24:45.370
And those gill plates were being dried

538
00:24:45.370 --> 00:24:50.340
and shipped to different parts of Asia, but primarily China,

539
00:24:50.340 --> 00:24:53.070
where they were being used as

540
00:24:53.070 --> 00:24:55.520
a pseudo remedy or a health tonic.

541
00:24:55.520 --> 00:24:59.870
And just to show you the scale of some of these fisheries.

542
00:24:59.870 --> 00:25:03.790
This is one stall in one dried seafood market in China.

543
00:25:03.790 --> 00:25:06.380
And those are just bags and bags with hundreds

544
00:25:06.380 --> 00:25:11.240
or thousands of individual manta and devil rays represented.

545
00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:13.890
So again, remember those low reproductive rates

546
00:25:13.890 --> 00:25:16.800
and those very small population sizes.

547
00:25:16.800 --> 00:25:20.260
So these targeted fisheries were really, really concerning.

548
00:25:20.260 --> 00:25:24.310
We knew for sure that they had to be impacting populations,

549
00:25:24.310 --> 00:25:27.830
but, there's this other more persistent threat, as well,

550
00:25:27.830 --> 00:25:29.770
that probably has been going on forever

551
00:25:29.770 --> 00:25:33.270
and is much harder to tackle, which is bycatch.

552
00:25:33.270 --> 00:25:36.900
So bycatch is anything that you catch by accident

553
00:25:36.900 --> 00:25:39.280
when you throw some type of fishing gear in the water.

554
00:25:39.280 --> 00:25:41.710
You might be trying to catch tuna

555
00:25:41.710 --> 00:25:43.630
but you actually end up catching a manta,

556
00:25:43.630 --> 00:25:46.210
and that means that that manta is bycatch.

557
00:25:46.210 --> 00:25:49.400
And it turns out that manta and devil rays' superpower

558
00:25:49.400 --> 00:25:51.340
is their ability to get tangled up

559
00:25:51.340 --> 00:25:55.330
in absolutely every type of fishing gear that exists.

560
00:25:55.330 --> 00:25:57.680
So there are the obvious ones like

561
00:25:57.680 --> 00:25:59.950
gill nets and purse seines where you'd expect to

562
00:25:59.950 --> 00:26:01.700
see a lot of these.

563
00:26:01.700 --> 00:26:04.670
But they also get caught in long lines,

564
00:26:04.670 --> 00:26:07.793
in trawls, just in the wildest places.

565
00:26:08.670 --> 00:26:11.930
So we know that this is also a really big problem.

566
00:26:11.930 --> 00:26:14.200
And then more and more we're recognizing

567
00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:17.920
that things like ship strikes, small vessel strikes,

568
00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:20.020
and these sub lethal impacts like

569
00:26:20.020 --> 00:26:22.100
entanglement in fishing gear

570
00:26:22.100 --> 00:26:24.860
that maybe the manta survives it.

571
00:26:24.860 --> 00:26:27.500
They're also having major impacts on populations

572
00:26:27.500 --> 00:26:29.080
but we don't yet really know

573
00:26:31.110 --> 00:26:33.720
how these are influencing population trends

574
00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:35.230
because they're not occurring.

575
00:26:35.230 --> 00:26:37.620
It doesn't necessarily kill an animal

576
00:26:37.620 --> 00:26:39.350
but maybe it reduces their fitness

577
00:26:39.350 --> 00:26:42.960
and impacts their ability to feed or reproduce.

578
00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:45.890
And these are questions that we don't know quite yet

579
00:26:45.890 --> 00:26:47.590
but we know that they're problems.

580
00:26:49.030 --> 00:26:51.140
So as a result of all these impacts,

581
00:26:51.140 --> 00:26:53.600
we have a lot of different streams of evidence

582
00:26:53.600 --> 00:26:56.510
suggesting pretty significant declines

583
00:26:56.510 --> 00:26:58.623
in manta and devil ray populations.

584
00:27:00.569 --> 00:27:01.620
They're not the best data.

585
00:27:01.620 --> 00:27:04.130
A lot of them are just citing trends

586
00:27:04.130 --> 00:27:06.723
as opposed to true abundance data.

587
00:27:08.010 --> 00:27:10.750
They're pretty data poor species in many regions.

588
00:27:10.750 --> 00:27:14.150
And so it makes it hard to do traditional stock assessments

589
00:27:14.150 --> 00:27:17.010
that you would use to manage fisheries

590
00:27:17.010 --> 00:27:19.430
that are data rich.

591
00:27:19.430 --> 00:27:21.910
So we don't know that much about population status

592
00:27:21.910 --> 00:27:23.060
of manta and devil rays,

593
00:27:23.060 --> 00:27:25.210
but we have a lot of evidence that suggests

594
00:27:25.210 --> 00:27:26.860
they're not doing that great.

595
00:27:26.860 --> 00:27:29.573
And they are probably declining in many places.

596
00:27:30.980 --> 00:27:34.890
So this was the context for my PhD research.

597
00:27:34.890 --> 00:27:38.130
This is what all interested me in mantas.

598
00:27:38.130 --> 00:27:42.280
And one of the biggest findings right before I started

599
00:27:42.280 --> 00:27:44.990
my PhD work was the identification

600
00:27:44.990 --> 00:27:48.680
or the splitting of these two manta species.

601
00:27:48.680 --> 00:27:49.930
So suddenly we went from having

602
00:27:49.930 --> 00:27:52.790
one manta species to two manta species.

603
00:27:52.790 --> 00:27:55.440
And it turns out that pretty much everything

604
00:27:55.440 --> 00:27:59.530
that we had known about mantas came from reef manta rays

605
00:27:59.530 --> 00:28:01.350
because they live on coral reefs.

606
00:28:01.350 --> 00:28:03.090
They're easier to access.

607
00:28:03.090 --> 00:28:05.770
Of course, we knew most about them.

608
00:28:05.770 --> 00:28:08.637
And we knew very little about oceanic mantas.

609
00:28:08.637 --> 00:28:11.550
And it also turned out that most of the manta rays

610
00:28:11.550 --> 00:28:13.350
being captured in these fisheries

611
00:28:13.350 --> 00:28:17.360
were oceanic mantas and not reef mantas.

612
00:28:17.360 --> 00:28:20.650
And we just had these absolutely enormous data gaps

613
00:28:20.650 --> 00:28:23.110
about what oceanic mantas are doing.

614
00:28:23.110 --> 00:28:24.193
Where do they go?

615
00:28:25.260 --> 00:28:28.130
What are their important critical habitats?

616
00:28:28.130 --> 00:28:31.010
And just to give you a sense of that,

617
00:28:31.010 --> 00:28:34.170
this is what we knew about oceanic manta distributions

618
00:28:34.170 --> 00:28:36.230
when I started working on these animals.

619
00:28:36.230 --> 00:28:39.710
We knew that they lived in warmish water

620
00:28:39.710 --> 00:28:41.070
and you could find them pretty much

621
00:28:41.070 --> 00:28:42.530
anywhere around the world.

622
00:28:42.530 --> 00:28:46.000
And that was the extent of

623
00:28:46.950 --> 00:28:49.580
our knowledge about the species movements.

624
00:28:49.580 --> 00:28:52.590
And where an animal goes, where a population goes,

625
00:28:52.590 --> 00:28:55.400
what the extent of a population is,

626
00:28:55.400 --> 00:28:57.770
is really, really important for understanding

627
00:28:57.770 --> 00:29:00.300
how fisheries might be impacting them,

628
00:29:00.300 --> 00:29:03.640
but also understanding how we can most effectively

629
00:29:03.640 --> 00:29:07.838
protect them and whose responsibility it is to protect them.

630
00:29:07.838 --> 00:29:08.671
Is it one country's?

631
00:29:08.671 --> 00:29:10.980
Is it the international communities?

632
00:29:10.980 --> 00:29:12.930
So this was a really compelling topic for me.

633
00:29:12.930 --> 00:29:15.450
I was really interested in learning more

634
00:29:15.450 --> 00:29:17.470
and doing some work to better understand

635
00:29:17.470 --> 00:29:19.850
how these animals are moving around

636
00:29:19.850 --> 00:29:24.410
and how that might affect management strategies for them.

637
00:29:24.410 --> 00:29:27.050
So this is where I think we have another poll Kelly.

638
00:29:27.050 --> 00:29:28.370
<v Kelly>We do.</v>

639
00:29:28.370 --> 00:29:30.840
<v ->And I'm gonna ask all of you on the call.</v>

640
00:29:30.840 --> 00:29:34.003
How far you think oceanic manta rays travel?

641
00:29:34.910 --> 00:29:39.620
So it could be across, let's say between ocean basins.

642
00:29:39.620 --> 00:29:42.263
So, 10,000 miles or more.

643
00:29:43.910 --> 00:29:47.320
Maybe 5,000 miles, 2000 miles.

644
00:29:47.320 --> 00:29:50.720
Or all the way down to not very much.

645
00:29:50.720 --> 00:29:53.920
So again, I'll let you all fill those in

646
00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:56.920
and I'm just gonna continue on with my presentation

647
00:29:56.920 --> 00:29:59.150
and I'll circle around in a minute here.

648
00:29:59.150 --> 00:30:00.900
<v Kelly>Just remember they can't see your slide</v>

649
00:30:00.900 --> 00:30:02.063
when the poll's open.

650
00:30:03.950 --> 00:30:05.756
<v ->Then take your poll now.</v>

651
00:30:05.756 --> 00:30:07.160
(Kelly laughs)

652
00:30:07.160 --> 00:30:11.000
I feel like I'm going a little slowly here.

653
00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:14.253
When are we done Kelly, or what's the cutoff, 5:30?

654
00:30:14.253 --> 00:30:16.823
<v Kelly>7:30 is the end. We still got half an hour.</v>

655
00:30:18.010 --> 00:30:19.660
<v ->Okay. That should be fine then.</v>

656
00:30:22.850 --> 00:30:25.500
<v Kelly>Looks like we have 82% have voted.</v>

657
00:30:25.500 --> 00:30:28.750
So we're gonna go ahead and close the poll now.

658
00:30:28.750 --> 00:30:30.693
And the results are,

659
00:30:34.250 --> 00:30:37.173
most people think they travel five to 10,000 miles.

660
00:30:38.010 --> 00:30:40.240
<v ->Yeah. Okay, great.</v>

661
00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:41.073
Super cool.

662
00:30:41.073 --> 00:30:43.900
So this is what we thought too.

663
00:30:43.900 --> 00:30:46.310
And the reason that we thought this,

664
00:30:46.310 --> 00:30:51.080
is because when you look at any other big animal

665
00:30:51.080 --> 00:30:53.450
that lives in these open ocean environments,

666
00:30:53.450 --> 00:30:56.650
we're talking whales, big sea turtles, sharks,

667
00:30:56.650 --> 00:30:59.090
seabirds, tunas, et cetera.

668
00:30:59.090 --> 00:31:01.460
They move around a ton.

669
00:31:01.460 --> 00:31:05.190
And so this map right here, this is a ton of different

670
00:31:05.190 --> 00:31:09.570
big ocean animals that have been tagged with satellite tags.

671
00:31:09.570 --> 00:31:12.650
And then we can see that indeed many of them

672
00:31:12.650 --> 00:31:15.760
are crossing the entire Pacific Ocean,

673
00:31:15.760 --> 00:31:18.940
traveling thousands and thousands of miles and so forth.

674
00:31:18.940 --> 00:31:20.650
And so we know that these are the same animals

675
00:31:20.650 --> 00:31:23.690
that live in similar habitats to mantas.

676
00:31:23.690 --> 00:31:26.850
Many of them are somewhat closely related to mantas.

677
00:31:26.850 --> 00:31:28.370
And so our assumption was that,

678
00:31:28.370 --> 00:31:31.650
surely without any other information,

679
00:31:31.650 --> 00:31:34.200
mantas are probably doing something pretty similar.

680
00:31:35.890 --> 00:31:39.630
So to do this, I and others we used a variety

681
00:31:39.630 --> 00:31:42.540
of different methods to get at this question

682
00:31:42.540 --> 00:31:46.250
of, "How far might mantas be moving,

683
00:31:46.250 --> 00:31:47.973
oceanic manta specifically?"

684
00:31:49.100 --> 00:31:52.133
So I know that this video probably looks choppy for you.

685
00:31:54.020 --> 00:31:57.340
Apologies, that's one of the downsides of presenting online

686
00:31:57.340 --> 00:31:59.140
but what I'm doing here is deploying

687
00:31:59.140 --> 00:32:01.330
a satellite tag on a manta.

688
00:32:01.330 --> 00:32:03.360
This happened to be in Mexico.

689
00:32:03.360 --> 00:32:08.240
And that tag will stay attached to the manta for six months.

690
00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:10.120
And then after that six month period,

691
00:32:10.120 --> 00:32:14.610
it pops off and it sends all of its data back via satellite

692
00:32:14.610 --> 00:32:17.653
and basically tells us where did this manta go.

693
00:32:18.760 --> 00:32:21.500
And the reason we don't use a tag that is

694
00:32:21.500 --> 00:32:24.320
constantly sharing its position is because

695
00:32:24.320 --> 00:32:27.390
mantas do occasionally come up close to the surface.

696
00:32:27.390 --> 00:32:29.090
They're not air breathing animals.

697
00:32:29.090 --> 00:32:32.700
So a turtle or a whale, you can use something

698
00:32:32.700 --> 00:32:36.620
that more closely approximates like your car GPS,

699
00:32:36.620 --> 00:32:39.390
where every time those animals come up to breathe,

700
00:32:39.390 --> 00:32:42.890
it sends a little signal and we know exactly where they are.

701
00:32:42.890 --> 00:32:46.003
But with mantas and other fishes, we have to use these.

702
00:32:47.110 --> 00:32:48.470
They're called archival tags,

703
00:32:48.470 --> 00:32:49.970
where they collect all the data,

704
00:32:49.970 --> 00:32:52.293
and then they tell us about it after the fact.

705
00:32:54.100 --> 00:32:56.660
Pretty wild that the reaction from the animals

706
00:32:56.660 --> 00:32:59.890
is almost nothing to these big,

707
00:32:59.890 --> 00:33:03.160
chunky tagged darts going into them.

708
00:33:03.160 --> 00:33:04.930
And they're still happy to hang out

709
00:33:04.930 --> 00:33:07.530
and play with you after they've been tagged.

710
00:33:07.530 --> 00:33:09.680
So that's always a good sign. We like that.

711
00:33:11.360 --> 00:33:14.930
And I'm just gonna jump straight into the results here.

712
00:33:14.930 --> 00:33:16.630
So we put on all these tags,

713
00:33:16.630 --> 00:33:17.870
we're waiting to see where they go.

714
00:33:17.870 --> 00:33:19.750
I'm a PhD student at the time

715
00:33:19.750 --> 00:33:23.460
and six months go by and I bit my nails to nubs.

716
00:33:24.466 --> 00:33:26.550
And these texts start popping off

717
00:33:26.550 --> 00:33:30.720
and they start reporting back from a few miles

718
00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:32.970
from where I deployed them.

719
00:33:32.970 --> 00:33:35.520
And that's not what you wanna see as a grad student.

720
00:33:35.520 --> 00:33:36.940
Of course, first thing I'm thinking is,

721
00:33:36.940 --> 00:33:39.230
oh my God, I completely screwed something up.

722
00:33:39.230 --> 00:33:40.530
I've done something wrong.

723
00:33:41.605 --> 00:33:43.850
And then, all the tags over time

724
00:33:43.850 --> 00:33:47.610
just pop off and not a single tag made it more

725
00:33:47.610 --> 00:33:52.370
than about 150 miles from where we deployed them.

726
00:33:52.370 --> 00:33:54.780
And when we looked at what the animals were doing

727
00:33:54.780 --> 00:33:57.930
in between when the tag was deployed and popped off,

728
00:33:57.930 --> 00:34:01.060
sure enough, they were hardly moving at all.

729
00:34:01.060 --> 00:34:03.830
And so these polygons that you're looking at on the maps

730
00:34:03.830 --> 00:34:07.570
they're the purple orange and red polygons.

731
00:34:07.570 --> 00:34:10.610
Those represent all the mantas that we tagged

732
00:34:10.610 --> 00:34:12.540
at each of those three sites,

733
00:34:12.540 --> 00:34:16.920
how far all of the combined mantas moved around.

734
00:34:16.920 --> 00:34:19.780
And the answer is hardly at all.

735
00:34:19.780 --> 00:34:23.970
And so if you look at these dotted white lines,

736
00:34:23.970 --> 00:34:26.250
those are the exclusive economic zones

737
00:34:26.250 --> 00:34:29.050
of the countries where we tagged these animals.

738
00:34:29.050 --> 00:34:33.160
And the EEZ means that anything that is within that boundary

739
00:34:33.160 --> 00:34:36.340
belongs to that country in terms of resources.

740
00:34:36.340 --> 00:34:39.210
So they can control fishing and mineral extraction,

741
00:34:39.210 --> 00:34:42.420
et cetera, within those dotted lines.

742
00:34:42.420 --> 00:34:47.420
And not a single animal that we tagged left those EEZs,

743
00:34:47.650 --> 00:34:49.760
which was a huge, huge surprise to us.

744
00:34:49.760 --> 00:34:52.763
This was the complete opposite of what we expected to find.

745
00:34:53.670 --> 00:34:55.710
But it's really interesting

746
00:34:57.520 --> 00:35:01.040
because it means that these animals belong

747
00:35:01.040 --> 00:35:03.590
to the countries where we find them

748
00:35:03.590 --> 00:35:07.603
as opposed to being these highly migratory ocean wanderers.

749
00:35:08.910 --> 00:35:10.880
I'm sure some of you are thinking,

750
00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:12.940
you put these tags on for six months

751
00:35:12.940 --> 00:35:16.410
and these animals live for 40 years or more maybe.

752
00:35:16.410 --> 00:35:18.650
So what does that really tell us about

753
00:35:18.650 --> 00:35:20.550
their movements over longer timelines?

754
00:35:22.990 --> 00:35:25.050
And of course, we had the same thought

755
00:35:25.050 --> 00:35:28.450
and we followed this up with a few different methods,

756
00:35:28.450 --> 00:35:31.460
genetics and something called stable isotope analysis

757
00:35:31.460 --> 00:35:33.690
which tell us similar things.

758
00:35:33.690 --> 00:35:36.390
A little more course resolution than the tags,

759
00:35:36.390 --> 00:35:38.540
but over much longer timescales.

760
00:35:38.540 --> 00:35:40.810
And all three of these methods agreed

761
00:35:40.810 --> 00:35:43.170
that basically we're looking at a bunch of different,

762
00:35:43.170 --> 00:35:45.410
small subpopulations of mantas

763
00:35:45.410 --> 00:35:48.353
as opposed to these ocean wanderers.

764
00:35:51.560 --> 00:35:52.650
I don't have my other one.

765
00:35:52.650 --> 00:35:56.020
I usually have the manta flight map that we expected to see

766
00:35:56.020 --> 00:35:58.540
with these animals crossing the Pacific.

767
00:35:58.540 --> 00:36:00.360
And instead what we found were these really,

768
00:36:00.360 --> 00:36:03.070
small isolated subpopulations.

769
00:36:03.070 --> 00:36:06.160
Again, just a huge surprise to us.

770
00:36:06.160 --> 00:36:09.640
So to recap that, we've learned that these animals

771
00:36:09.640 --> 00:36:12.870
are not nearly as migratory as we expected them to be.

772
00:36:12.870 --> 00:36:15.310
They can certainly move around a bit

773
00:36:15.310 --> 00:36:17.810
but they're not leatherback turtles

774
00:36:17.810 --> 00:36:19.623
crossing the Pacific every year.

775
00:36:21.320 --> 00:36:25.690
These small isolated subpopulations are almost definitely,

776
00:36:25.690 --> 00:36:28.490
more vulnerable to human impacts

777
00:36:28.490 --> 00:36:32.350
because we know that they can't really reproduce quickly.

778
00:36:32.350 --> 00:36:35.950
So small isolated populations have fewer animals,

779
00:36:35.950 --> 00:36:38.360
which means that they're more likely to decline

780
00:36:38.360 --> 00:36:41.173
if there are fisheries and other impacts.

781
00:36:42.030 --> 00:36:44.170
And sure enough, we've seen these

782
00:36:44.170 --> 00:36:47.940
dramatic precipitous declines in many places.

783
00:36:47.940 --> 00:36:51.283
This helps explain why that might be happening.

784
00:36:52.950 --> 00:36:54.740
The good news, if you will,

785
00:36:54.740 --> 00:36:57.650
is that countries have direct control

786
00:36:57.650 --> 00:37:00.190
over the management of these manta populations.

787
00:37:00.190 --> 00:37:03.920
Because again, if you are the United States

788
00:37:03.920 --> 00:37:05.990
and you've got some mantas nearby

789
00:37:05.990 --> 00:37:07.770
in your territorial waters,

790
00:37:07.770 --> 00:37:09.410
it looks like for the most part,

791
00:37:09.410 --> 00:37:12.640
they're not gonna be crossing the border somewhere else

792
00:37:12.640 --> 00:37:13.730
where they might get fished.

793
00:37:13.730 --> 00:37:15.493
So if we protect them,

794
00:37:16.340 --> 00:37:18.460
then we know that we're more or less

795
00:37:18.460 --> 00:37:20.260
effectively protecting these populations.

796
00:37:20.260 --> 00:37:22.320
We don't have to worry too much

797
00:37:22.320 --> 00:37:25.060
about international fisheries

798
00:37:25.060 --> 00:37:27.500
impacting our manta populations.

799
00:37:27.500 --> 00:37:31.180
And this was a really, really important point for us

800
00:37:31.180 --> 00:37:33.340
when we were trying to make the case for

801
00:37:33.340 --> 00:37:36.200
local and national level management strategies

802
00:37:36.200 --> 00:37:39.990
in other countries, Southeast Asia, Sri Lanka,

803
00:37:39.990 --> 00:37:44.680
South America, where there are direct manta fisheries.

804
00:37:44.680 --> 00:37:47.290
And the result of that was we were able to make the case

805
00:37:47.290 --> 00:37:48.640
to some of these countries,

806
00:37:48.640 --> 00:37:50.410
hey, these are your mantas.

807
00:37:50.410 --> 00:37:52.430
If you protect them, you don't have to worry about them

808
00:37:52.430 --> 00:37:55.300
swimming off somewhere else and getting killed.

809
00:37:55.300 --> 00:37:57.170
They're valuable in tourism.

810
00:37:57.170 --> 00:37:59.330
We know that they're worth a lot more.

811
00:37:59.330 --> 00:38:03.053
On average, as a tourist draw than in a fishery.

812
00:38:04.268 --> 00:38:05.280
And so a lot of these countries,

813
00:38:05.280 --> 00:38:07.660
they were really receptive to that.

814
00:38:07.660 --> 00:38:12.070
And in Indonesia and Peru, mantas were completely protected

815
00:38:12.070 --> 00:38:16.183
and those were two major fishing nations for oceanic mantas.

816
00:38:17.116 --> 00:38:21.400
And then in Mexico, it also helped support the increase

817
00:38:21.400 --> 00:38:25.000
in size of a flagship marine protected area

818
00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:28.363
to better encompass the total range of mantas there.

819
00:38:29.300 --> 00:38:32.020
So that's been really good news and also just a really

820
00:38:32.020 --> 00:38:35.240
unexpected finding on our part in terms of

821
00:38:35.240 --> 00:38:37.860
we thought they were gonna be these big oceanic wanderers,

822
00:38:37.860 --> 00:38:39.310
and it turns out they're not.

823
00:38:41.340 --> 00:38:42.713
So I'm gonna move on to.

824
00:38:43.847 --> 00:38:44.720
<v ->[Kelly Quick question.</v>

825
00:38:44.720 --> 00:38:46.400
People are wondering if you're talking about

826
00:38:46.400 --> 00:38:48.140
the oceanic mantas or the reef mantas

827
00:38:48.140 --> 00:38:50.753
when you're talking about these migrations.

828
00:38:51.780 --> 00:38:53.210
<v ->I'm talking about the oceanic mantas,</v>

829
00:38:53.210 --> 00:38:56.823
but reef mantas actually move around even less than this.

830
00:38:57.910 --> 00:38:59.140
Or similar

831
00:39:01.270 --> 00:39:03.963
maximum migration distance.

832
00:39:05.137 --> 00:39:08.230
We thought that reef mantas would hang out near their house,

833
00:39:08.230 --> 00:39:10.170
their home reefs and oceanic mantas

834
00:39:10.170 --> 00:39:11.720
would be wandering around.

835
00:39:11.720 --> 00:39:14.520
And it looks like they're both actually pretty resident.

836
00:39:15.780 --> 00:39:16.623
Good question.

837
00:39:18.380 --> 00:39:20.480
So the next topic I'm gonna cover

838
00:39:20.480 --> 00:39:21.800
and the reason I'm covering this is

839
00:39:21.800 --> 00:39:23.400
because it's gonna relate back to

840
00:39:23.400 --> 00:39:25.650
the Flower Garden Banks work that we're doing.

841
00:39:25.650 --> 00:39:28.760
Is where do mantas go to feed?

842
00:39:28.760 --> 00:39:31.420
And obviously we can see them when we're diving

843
00:39:31.420 --> 00:39:33.190
or snorkeling or on a boat.

844
00:39:33.190 --> 00:39:35.370
We see them feeding at the surface

845
00:39:35.370 --> 00:39:38.173
because we are also at or near the surface.

846
00:39:39.030 --> 00:39:41.660
But a pattern that we see repeatedly

847
00:39:41.660 --> 00:39:44.450
is that at some of these dive sites or cleaning stations

848
00:39:44.450 --> 00:39:48.140
or manta aggregation sites where we see mantas a lot,

849
00:39:48.140 --> 00:39:49.620
they're there during the day.

850
00:39:49.620 --> 00:39:51.200
And that's what this plot is showing.

851
00:39:51.200 --> 00:39:53.920
These are tagged data from acoustic tags

852
00:39:53.920 --> 00:39:57.440
which just tell us when they're present at a certain site.

853
00:39:57.440 --> 00:39:59.130
We see that they're present during the day,

854
00:39:59.130 --> 00:40:01.950
and then at night they disappear.

855
00:40:01.950 --> 00:40:04.490
And this is a pattern that we see across species.

856
00:40:04.490 --> 00:40:06.640
So reef mantas, oceanic mantas,

857
00:40:06.640 --> 00:40:09.870
some of the devil rays as well if they ever come into reefs.

858
00:40:09.870 --> 00:40:13.620
They disappear at night and there's been this question of

859
00:40:13.620 --> 00:40:15.800
where are they going at night?

860
00:40:15.800 --> 00:40:18.750
And it turns out that we can use those same satellite tags

861
00:40:18.750 --> 00:40:20.770
to investigate that question

862
00:40:20.770 --> 00:40:23.530
because these tags are recording diving data

863
00:40:23.530 --> 00:40:25.170
as well, depth data.

864
00:40:25.170 --> 00:40:27.290
So we can actually see to what depths

865
00:40:27.290 --> 00:40:29.410
these animals are going throughout the day.

866
00:40:29.410 --> 00:40:31.510
And if that changes between day and night.

867
00:40:32.470 --> 00:40:35.740
And one thing that again was really surprising to us,

868
00:40:35.740 --> 00:40:40.690
was that mantas are spending a ton of time in deep water.

869
00:40:40.690 --> 00:40:42.990
So this graph that you're looking at here,

870
00:40:42.990 --> 00:40:45.740
on the Y axis, these are different depth bins

871
00:40:45.740 --> 00:40:48.920
that the tag is recording how much time they spend in that.

872
00:40:48.920 --> 00:40:51.910
So the X axis is the percentage of their day

873
00:40:51.910 --> 00:40:53.950
that they spend in each of these depth bins.

874
00:40:53.950 --> 00:40:57.893
And then we've got it separated out into night and day.

875
00:40:58.820 --> 00:41:01.470
This is just one month, there's a lot of variability.

876
00:41:02.820 --> 00:41:05.180
This changes across regions, et cetera.

877
00:41:05.180 --> 00:41:07.560
But the key thing is just how much time

878
00:41:07.560 --> 00:41:09.660
they spend in these deep waters.

879
00:41:09.660 --> 00:41:14.350
This can be anywhere from about 150 to around 500 feet

880
00:41:14.350 --> 00:41:16.890
deep on this chart in particular.

881
00:41:16.890 --> 00:41:20.800
And a lot more of that time they're spending down

882
00:41:20.800 --> 00:41:23.453
deep at night compared to during the day.

883
00:41:24.770 --> 00:41:26.760
So what are they doing down there?

884
00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:30.440
Our hypothesis was that they were going down to feed

885
00:41:30.440 --> 00:41:33.300
on something called the deep scattering layer.

886
00:41:33.300 --> 00:41:34.680
So the deep scattering layer,

887
00:41:34.680 --> 00:41:38.910
this is a little bit of a oceanography class.

888
00:41:38.910 --> 00:41:43.350
There are a ton of zooplankton and small fishes

889
00:41:43.350 --> 00:41:48.340
that live down deep round about four to 500 meters deep

890
00:41:48.340 --> 00:41:51.000
so 1500 feet or so.

891
00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:52.830
And they hang out down there during the day

892
00:41:52.830 --> 00:41:55.330
because it's still dark even during the day

893
00:41:55.330 --> 00:41:56.620
it's dark down there.

894
00:41:56.620 --> 00:41:59.400
So they can hide from predators.

895
00:41:59.400 --> 00:42:02.540
And at night they migrate up to the surface,

896
00:42:02.540 --> 00:42:04.830
and that's what we can see here on the right.

897
00:42:04.830 --> 00:42:06.830
I don't know if you guys can see my cursor.

898
00:42:06.830 --> 00:42:08.530
But there's this green band

899
00:42:08.530 --> 00:42:11.630
and you can see it moving up towards the surface.

900
00:42:11.630 --> 00:42:15.070
The X axis here is hour of the day.

901
00:42:15.070 --> 00:42:17.150
And so they migrate up at night

902
00:42:17.150 --> 00:42:19.780
to feed close to the surface.

903
00:42:19.780 --> 00:42:22.340
And they're still hiding from these visual predators

904
00:42:22.340 --> 00:42:24.930
because it's dark at night near the surface.

905
00:42:24.930 --> 00:42:27.810
And so this is called the deep scattering layer.

906
00:42:27.810 --> 00:42:30.460
It's been called the largest migration on the planet

907
00:42:30.460 --> 00:42:33.290
because there's just an absolutely astonishing amount

908
00:42:33.290 --> 00:42:35.650
of biomass that is making this migration

909
00:42:35.650 --> 00:42:39.470
a few hundred meters up and down every single day and night.

910
00:42:39.470 --> 00:42:41.810
And over on the left, we're looking at

911
00:42:41.810 --> 00:42:46.350
one of manta and devil rays preferred prey items,

912
00:42:46.350 --> 00:42:48.160
euphausids or krill.

913
00:42:48.160 --> 00:42:50.230
And this is just showing the exact same thing,

914
00:42:50.230 --> 00:42:52.460
on the left during the day they're down deep,

915
00:42:52.460 --> 00:42:54.170
three or 400 meters deep.

916
00:42:54.170 --> 00:42:57.123
And then they migrate up towards the surface at night.

917
00:42:58.640 --> 00:43:02.010
And we've actually been lucky enough to capture

918
00:43:02.010 --> 00:43:04.240
some of this behavior.

919
00:43:04.240 --> 00:43:06.393
This is just very, very lucky.

920
00:43:07.393 --> 00:43:08.950
A colleague of mine was in a submarine

921
00:43:08.950 --> 00:43:12.070
and happened to capture some video of a manta feeding

922
00:43:12.070 --> 00:43:16.750
on this extraordinarily dense aggregation of krill

923
00:43:16.750 --> 00:43:19.630
which is all that noisy,

924
00:43:19.630 --> 00:43:21.910
snowy, grainy stuff.

925
00:43:21.910 --> 00:43:23.120
That's all just krill.

926
00:43:23.120 --> 00:43:24.670
So you can see how thick it is.

927
00:43:25.988 --> 00:43:28.870
And this manta is down around 150 meters or so,

928
00:43:31.360 --> 00:43:32.880
just going to town.

929
00:43:32.880 --> 00:43:35.700
It found this really super dense aggregation of food.

930
00:43:35.700 --> 00:43:37.550
So again, it's gonna do everything it can

931
00:43:37.550 --> 00:43:39.690
to just hang out and maximize

932
00:43:39.690 --> 00:43:41.433
its feeding efficiency down here.

933
00:43:43.000 --> 00:43:46.963
It turns out that some folks have done things.

934
00:43:47.990 --> 00:43:51.330
You can basically take a tissue sample from an animal

935
00:43:51.330 --> 00:43:54.380
and you can take some candidate prey items

936
00:43:54.380 --> 00:43:56.030
that you think it might be eating.

937
00:43:56.030 --> 00:43:59.140
And you can tell how much of those different prey items

938
00:43:59.140 --> 00:44:03.140
make up that animal's diet by figuring out how much of those

939
00:44:03.140 --> 00:44:06.060
different sources are incorporated into its tissues.

940
00:44:06.060 --> 00:44:07.213
And you can learn that using something called

941
00:44:07.213 --> 00:44:10.210
stable isotope analysis.

942
00:44:10.210 --> 00:44:11.570
So it requires a lot of math,

943
00:44:11.570 --> 00:44:13.070
it requires a lot of assumptions.

944
00:44:13.070 --> 00:44:15.480
There's a lot of uncertainty around

945
00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:18.600
some of the values that we have to assume.

946
00:44:18.600 --> 00:44:20.170
But what you're looking at here

947
00:44:20.170 --> 00:44:22.580
is the proportion of the diet that comes

948
00:44:22.580 --> 00:44:24.590
from mesopelagic prey,

949
00:44:24.590 --> 00:44:26.710
which are those vertical migrators.

950
00:44:26.710 --> 00:44:28.510
So that's the yellow box.

951
00:44:28.510 --> 00:44:30.020
And then the proportion of their diet

952
00:44:30.020 --> 00:44:33.870
that comes from surface zooplankton.

953
00:44:33.870 --> 00:44:35.970
And in this case, this is oceanic mantas

954
00:44:35.970 --> 00:44:38.520
but similar things have been shown for all

955
00:44:38.520 --> 00:44:40.930
of the different manta and devil ray species.

956
00:44:40.930 --> 00:44:42.720
And no matter what math we use,

957
00:44:42.720 --> 00:44:46.320
it turns out that these mesopelagic vertical migrators

958
00:44:46.320 --> 00:44:50.250
are really, really important for oceanic manta

959
00:44:50.250 --> 00:44:52.060
and other manta and devil rays diet.

960
00:44:52.060 --> 00:44:54.280
So they're doing a ton of this,

961
00:44:54.280 --> 00:44:57.710
migrating down to meet these guys as they come up

962
00:44:58.790 --> 00:45:02.410
at night and feeding on them in these really dense schools.

963
00:45:02.410 --> 00:45:03.660
So that seems to be a really,

964
00:45:03.660 --> 00:45:05.680
really important part of their diet.

965
00:45:05.680 --> 00:45:08.110
And we've had one instance.

966
00:45:08.110 --> 00:45:11.320
This is from a study that we did with colleagues

967
00:45:11.320 --> 00:45:14.910
in the Philippines where a fishery was catching

968
00:45:14.910 --> 00:45:16.270
a lot of manta and devil rays.

969
00:45:16.270 --> 00:45:19.530
In the Philippines they catch them in gill nets at night.

970
00:45:19.530 --> 00:45:20.900
And when you'd cut them open,

971
00:45:20.900 --> 00:45:24.030
there were four different species of manta and devil rays.

972
00:45:24.030 --> 00:45:25.650
When you cut their stomachs open,

973
00:45:25.650 --> 00:45:28.090
every single one of them was just absolutely

974
00:45:28.090 --> 00:45:30.660
chocked full of krill.

975
00:45:30.660 --> 00:45:33.883
So we know that that's a really, really important diet item.

976
00:45:36.412 --> 00:45:38.010
I just wanna highlight that these mid-water

977
00:45:38.010 --> 00:45:42.080
and deep-water habitats are really, really important

978
00:45:42.080 --> 00:45:44.550
for all of the manta and devil ray species.

979
00:45:44.550 --> 00:45:47.460
And that is gonna lead me into my discussion

980
00:45:47.460 --> 00:45:49.500
of what we are doing at the Flower Garden Banks

981
00:45:49.500 --> 00:45:53.020
and what we think is going on with mantas there.

982
00:45:53.020 --> 00:45:54.330
And I'm just checking my time.

983
00:45:54.330 --> 00:45:56.210
We've got maybe 10 minutes.

984
00:45:56.210 --> 00:45:57.910
So I think I can get through this.

985
00:45:59.060 --> 00:46:01.620
So the Flower Garden Banks are these really,

986
00:46:01.620 --> 00:46:05.850
extraordinary little salt domes that pop out

987
00:46:05.850 --> 00:46:09.210
from the soft, sandy, muddy substrate

988
00:46:09.210 --> 00:46:11.290
in the Northern Gulf of Mexico.

989
00:46:11.290 --> 00:46:14.140
And they've got these really amazing coral habitats

990
00:46:14.140 --> 00:46:16.850
that have grown on top of the salt domes.

991
00:46:16.850 --> 00:46:19.680
And I wanna make the distinction here

992
00:46:19.680 --> 00:46:21.620
between the Flower Garden Banks,

993
00:46:21.620 --> 00:46:26.590
which are these two specific coral reef habitats and banks

994
00:46:26.590 --> 00:46:29.800
versus the Flower Garden Banks National Marine Sanctuary,

995
00:46:29.800 --> 00:46:32.270
which is those plus Stetson Bank,

996
00:46:32.270 --> 00:46:35.540
and is soon to incorporate many more banks

997
00:46:35.540 --> 00:46:37.170
throughout the Northern Gulf of Mexico.

998
00:46:37.170 --> 00:46:40.040
So for now, I'm just talking specifically about

999
00:46:40.040 --> 00:46:41.580
these two Flower Garden Banks

1000
00:46:41.580 --> 00:46:44.223
and a little bit about Stetson Bank.

1001
00:46:45.700 --> 00:46:48.590
And I wanna highlight Marissa, Emma and Michelle,

1002
00:46:48.590 --> 00:46:51.500
who are really the ones that have made all this work happen.

1003
00:46:51.500 --> 00:46:54.760
I've just swooped in and talked about mantas

1004
00:46:54.760 --> 00:46:57.710
a few times and gotten to do some fun field work with them.

1005
00:46:57.710 --> 00:46:59.800
But they're the ones who were going out every week,

1006
00:46:59.800 --> 00:47:03.030
every day to the sanctuary,

1007
00:47:03.030 --> 00:47:04.940
doing a lot of the data collection.

1008
00:47:04.940 --> 00:47:06.770
And they're the reason that a lot of this work

1009
00:47:06.770 --> 00:47:07.630
has been possible.

1010
00:47:07.630 --> 00:47:09.573
So I just wanted to acknowledge that.

1011
00:47:11.680 --> 00:47:14.020
First of all, let's talk about what species of manta

1012
00:47:14.020 --> 00:47:16.660
is at Flower Garden Banks.

1013
00:47:16.660 --> 00:47:21.223
So we see these two different types.

1014
00:47:22.330 --> 00:47:25.050
And there's again, I mentioned there's so much variability

1015
00:47:25.050 --> 00:47:29.510
in those Atlantic and or Caribbean mantas

1016
00:47:29.510 --> 00:47:31.320
that it can make it really hard to tell

1017
00:47:31.320 --> 00:47:33.680
what species you're looking at.

1018
00:47:33.680 --> 00:47:37.360
So we know for sure that those Caribbean or Atlantic mantas

1019
00:47:37.360 --> 00:47:40.470
are visiting and using the Flower Garden Banks quite a bit.

1020
00:47:40.470 --> 00:47:42.830
But we also think there might be the occasional

1021
00:47:42.830 --> 00:47:45.780
oceanic manta coming through.

1022
00:47:45.780 --> 00:47:48.410
Hard for us to know with certainty.

1023
00:47:48.410 --> 00:47:51.230
And then this one intermediate guy that I think

1024
00:47:51.230 --> 00:47:54.570
you'll remember from the genetic discussion I had

1025
00:47:54.570 --> 00:47:56.180
at the very start of the talk,

1026
00:47:56.180 --> 00:47:59.610
this sample actually came from Flower Garden Banks.

1027
00:47:59.610 --> 00:48:03.270
And genetically it's halfway between oceanic mantas

1028
00:48:03.270 --> 00:48:05.110
and these Caribbean mantas.

1029
00:48:05.110 --> 00:48:06.850
So we're pretty sure that it's actually

1030
00:48:06.850 --> 00:48:10.130
a hybrid between the two species.

1031
00:48:10.130 --> 00:48:14.430
So they may be hybridizing quite frequently

1032
00:48:14.430 --> 00:48:15.893
in the Gulf of Mexico.

1033
00:48:17.270 --> 00:48:19.870
We might be seeing hybrids somewhat frequently

1034
00:48:19.870 --> 00:48:23.500
at Flower Garden Banks, we really just don't know.

1035
00:48:23.500 --> 00:48:25.760
So we know for sure that we've got these Caribbean mantas,

1036
00:48:25.760 --> 00:48:27.030
we know we've got some hybrids.

1037
00:48:27.030 --> 00:48:29.680
we think we've got some oceanic mantas.

1038
00:48:29.680 --> 00:48:31.740
But I hope that illustrates why it's so hard

1039
00:48:31.740 --> 00:48:35.050
to pin down what species we're looking at

1040
00:48:35.050 --> 00:48:37.703
because they might even be producing these hybrids.

1041
00:48:39.880 --> 00:48:42.233
So that just made it more confusing probably.

1042
00:48:43.199 --> 00:48:45.670
But we definitely have the Caribbean mantas.

1043
00:48:45.670 --> 00:48:48.657
When we think about why mantas come to reefs

1044
00:48:48.657 --> 00:48:52.270
and to aggregation sites, often one of the reasons

1045
00:48:52.270 --> 00:48:54.190
is that they're coming to clean.

1046
00:48:54.190 --> 00:48:57.390
So they spend a lot of time in open water and deep water.

1047
00:48:57.390 --> 00:49:00.490
They pick up big parasite loads and they have to come

1048
00:49:00.490 --> 00:49:02.670
to reefs so that these cleaner fish

1049
00:49:02.670 --> 00:49:05.020
can pick those parasites off of them.

1050
00:49:05.020 --> 00:49:06.403
And so we're looking at that right here.

1051
00:49:06.403 --> 00:49:07.970
These are Clarion angelfish

1052
00:49:07.970 --> 00:49:10.910
cleaning an oceanic manta in Mexico.

1053
00:49:10.910 --> 00:49:13.763
So this is on the Pacific coast of Mexico.

1054
00:49:15.250 --> 00:49:16.530
Another reason that they might come

1055
00:49:16.530 --> 00:49:18.090
to some of these sites is to feed.

1056
00:49:18.090 --> 00:49:21.260
So places in the Maldives for example,

1057
00:49:21.260 --> 00:49:25.010
in Australia, they'll come to these reef habitats

1058
00:49:25.010 --> 00:49:27.320
because they're aggregators of plankton.

1059
00:49:27.320 --> 00:49:30.020
They can create localized upwellings,

1060
00:49:30.020 --> 00:49:32.420
so they might be good feeding opportunities.

1061
00:49:32.420 --> 00:49:34.470
But weirdly at Flower Garden Banks,

1062
00:49:34.470 --> 00:49:36.940
we don't really see either of those things happening.

1063
00:49:36.940 --> 00:49:40.420
There are a couple of historical records

1064
00:49:41.370 --> 00:49:43.700
by Emma and by some other folks who work

1065
00:49:43.700 --> 00:49:45.960
or who have visited the Flower Garden Banks

1066
00:49:45.960 --> 00:49:47.620
of mantas feeding there.

1067
00:49:47.620 --> 00:49:50.480
But really it's not a common observation,

1068
00:49:50.480 --> 00:49:51.930
it's not a common occurrence.

1069
00:49:52.830 --> 00:49:54.730
And we don't really ever see them cleaning.

1070
00:49:54.730 --> 00:49:57.410
So they're not stopping at the cleaning stations

1071
00:49:57.410 --> 00:50:00.400
that we know do exist at Flower Garden Banks.

1072
00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:02.010
They just pass by those.

1073
00:50:02.010 --> 00:50:05.730
So this has been a question of why are these mantas

1074
00:50:05.730 --> 00:50:08.340
coming to Flower Garden Banks?

1075
00:50:08.340 --> 00:50:10.960
One of the first things that I noticed the first time

1076
00:50:10.960 --> 00:50:13.660
that I got in the water with a manta at Flower Garden Banks

1077
00:50:13.660 --> 00:50:16.320
was how extraordinarily tiny it was.

1078
00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:18.140
It was probably the smallest manta

1079
00:50:18.140 --> 00:50:20.340
I'd ever been in the water with.

1080
00:50:20.340 --> 00:50:24.390
And when we started looking through the photo ID catalog,

1081
00:50:24.390 --> 00:50:29.260
we noticed that pretty much every manta that we could tell

1082
00:50:29.260 --> 00:50:32.510
that it was a male, was a juvenile male.

1083
00:50:32.510 --> 00:50:33.870
And the way that we can tell that,

1084
00:50:33.870 --> 00:50:37.170
is that male sharks and rays have these things

1085
00:50:37.170 --> 00:50:40.070
called claspers, which are their sex organs,

1086
00:50:40.070 --> 00:50:42.430
which pop out of their pelvic fins.

1087
00:50:42.430 --> 00:50:44.870
And when they've got these tiny little claspers

1088
00:50:44.870 --> 00:50:47.230
that means that they're a juvenile,

1089
00:50:47.230 --> 00:50:49.270
they could even be a newborn.

1090
00:50:49.270 --> 00:50:51.870
And it's not till sexual maturity in mantas

1091
00:50:51.870 --> 00:50:55.260
that these claspers extend beyond the fins.

1092
00:50:55.260 --> 00:50:56.570
And you might even have trouble

1093
00:50:56.570 --> 00:50:58.290
seeing these claspers here.

1094
00:50:58.290 --> 00:50:59.390
If you're not looking for them,

1095
00:50:59.390 --> 00:51:01.890
you might think that this is actually a little female.

1096
00:51:01.890 --> 00:51:05.090
But they have these two tiny, tiny, little claspers.

1097
00:51:05.090 --> 00:51:08.023
So we can say that this is a juvenile male.

1098
00:51:09.040 --> 00:51:10.910
And it turned out that when we started looking

1099
00:51:10.910 --> 00:51:14.990
in depth at these little tiny mantas,

1100
00:51:14.990 --> 00:51:18.900
93% of the mantas in that photo ID database

1101
00:51:18.900 --> 00:51:22.580
that we could tell were males were immature,

1102
00:51:22.580 --> 00:51:26.620
which is extraordinary because we very, very rarely see

1103
00:51:26.620 --> 00:51:30.210
these small mantas anywhere in the world.

1104
00:51:30.210 --> 00:51:33.520
So this is the distribution of sizes of mantas

1105
00:51:33.520 --> 00:51:34.890
from the Flower Garden Banks.

1106
00:51:34.890 --> 00:51:36.670
You'll see that they're really small

1107
00:51:36.670 --> 00:51:39.890
and most of them are less than three meters.

1108
00:51:39.890 --> 00:51:42.190
I've also put on here for reference,

1109
00:51:42.190 --> 00:51:44.540
these vertical lines are the size of maturity

1110
00:51:44.540 --> 00:51:46.993
for oceanic mantas and for reef mantas.

1111
00:51:48.300 --> 00:51:49.400
These are Caribbean mantas,

1112
00:51:49.400 --> 00:51:52.880
we don't really know what the size of maturity is.

1113
00:51:52.880 --> 00:51:55.870
But if it's something close to oceanic or reef mantas,

1114
00:51:55.870 --> 00:51:57.790
then pretty much all of these animals

1115
00:51:57.790 --> 00:52:01.420
are likely to be immature juveniles.

1116
00:52:01.420 --> 00:52:04.050
And when you look at any other population of mantas

1117
00:52:04.050 --> 00:52:07.490
around the world, normally you see that that sort of less

1118
00:52:07.490 --> 00:52:11.210
than three meter range is completely absent.

1119
00:52:11.210 --> 00:52:13.130
We rarely see mantas that are that small

1120
00:52:13.130 --> 00:52:15.110
in other populations.

1121
00:52:15.110 --> 00:52:16.780
And it turns out that that is pretty much

1122
00:52:16.780 --> 00:52:19.850
the exact distribution of sizes of mantas

1123
00:52:19.850 --> 00:52:22.180
at Flower Garden Banks.

1124
00:52:22.180 --> 00:52:24.800
So instantly we thought,

1125
00:52:24.800 --> 00:52:28.940
hey, this might be a nursery habitat for mantas.

1126
00:52:28.940 --> 00:52:33.200
This had been small mantas had been seen before.

1127
00:52:33.200 --> 00:52:34.850
And it had been proposed that,

1128
00:52:34.850 --> 00:52:38.330
hey, maybe this is a nursery habitat at Flower Garden Banks.

1129
00:52:38.330 --> 00:52:41.410
It turns out that just seeing small mantas

1130
00:52:41.410 --> 00:52:44.760
or juvenile mantas isn't enough to call something

1131
00:52:44.760 --> 00:52:46.320
a nursery habitat.

1132
00:52:46.320 --> 00:52:49.000
There are three really specific criteria

1133
00:52:49.000 --> 00:52:52.720
for establishing a shark or ray nursery area

1134
00:52:52.720 --> 00:52:54.470
or for defining or classifying

1135
00:52:54.470 --> 00:52:57.470
a shark and ray nursery area.

1136
00:52:57.470 --> 00:53:00.150
Which there have to be more juveniles

1137
00:53:00.150 --> 00:53:02.900
at that site than other places.

1138
00:53:02.900 --> 00:53:06.950
They have to remain in that area for extended periods.

1139
00:53:06.950 --> 00:53:09.430
And they have to use that site repeatedly across years,

1140
00:53:09.430 --> 00:53:10.410
so it can't just be like,

1141
00:53:10.410 --> 00:53:11.690
oh, hey, one year there were a bunch

1142
00:53:11.690 --> 00:53:13.890
of little baby sharks or rays over here

1143
00:53:13.890 --> 00:53:15.270
and then we never saw that again

1144
00:53:15.270 --> 00:53:16.730
but let's call it a nursery.

1145
00:53:16.730 --> 00:53:17.713
That doesn't fly.

1146
00:53:18.600 --> 00:53:20.320
So it turns out that Flower Garden Banks

1147
00:53:20.320 --> 00:53:22.830
actually meets all of these criteria.

1148
00:53:22.830 --> 00:53:27.830
So we were able to classify it as a nursery habitat.

1149
00:53:28.050 --> 00:53:30.390
Again, this is just the banks themselves

1150
00:53:30.390 --> 00:53:32.523
not the entire marine sanctuary.

1151
00:53:34.040 --> 00:53:37.800
But it's curious because some of the other places

1152
00:53:37.800 --> 00:53:41.180
that have since then been defined as well as

1153
00:53:41.180 --> 00:53:45.260
either reef or Atlantic manta nurseries have really

1154
00:53:45.260 --> 00:53:48.740
different characteristics than the Flower Garden Banks.

1155
00:53:48.740 --> 00:53:51.000
They tend to be these coastal,

1156
00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:53.050
sandy, sheltered,

1157
00:53:53.050 --> 00:53:57.040
warm areas where a little baby manta

1158
00:53:57.040 --> 00:53:59.433
can grow and be safe from predators.

1159
00:54:00.730 --> 00:54:04.470
They're typically these like shallow coastal areas.

1160
00:54:04.470 --> 00:54:06.020
And that also fits with what we know

1161
00:54:06.020 --> 00:54:09.300
about shark and ray nurseries in general.

1162
00:54:09.300 --> 00:54:11.650
These are typically places where sharks and rays

1163
00:54:11.650 --> 00:54:14.360
can hide from predators and get food

1164
00:54:14.360 --> 00:54:16.680
until they grow big enough to be safe

1165
00:54:16.680 --> 00:54:18.723
in the wider ocean essentially.

1166
00:54:19.920 --> 00:54:22.020
So what the heck is going on at Flower Garden Banks?

1167
00:54:22.020 --> 00:54:24.470
It doesn't seem like it really fits that pattern.

1168
00:54:26.420 --> 00:54:27.770
I'm using this map now.

1169
00:54:27.770 --> 00:54:28.603
This is

1170
00:54:30.917 --> 00:54:32.470
the expanded sanctuary,

1171
00:54:32.470 --> 00:54:36.360
the proposed expanded sanctuary boundaries just to show you

1172
00:54:36.360 --> 00:54:39.460
where the sanctuary is in context.

1173
00:54:39.460 --> 00:54:42.320
So it's in the Northern Gulf of Mexico,

1174
00:54:42.320 --> 00:54:45.500
but it's right on the edge of the continental shelf,

1175
00:54:45.500 --> 00:54:48.653
just really right dangling over the side.

1176
00:54:49.516 --> 00:54:51.730
So the water there is relatively shallow,

1177
00:54:51.730 --> 00:54:54.693
but it's adjacent to this continental slope

1178
00:54:54.693 --> 00:54:57.760
that gets down to really, really deep water

1179
00:54:57.760 --> 00:54:59.820
really, really quickly.

1180
00:54:59.820 --> 00:55:03.430
So just remember, in the Northern Gulf of Mexico

1181
00:55:03.430 --> 00:55:06.070
we also see these deep scattering layers

1182
00:55:06.070 --> 00:55:07.320
that I was mentioning before,

1183
00:55:07.320 --> 00:55:11.430
these really super productive mid-water habitats

1184
00:55:11.430 --> 00:55:13.510
with tons and tons of zooplankton

1185
00:55:13.510 --> 00:55:16.080
and small fishes that are gonna migrate close

1186
00:55:16.080 --> 00:55:18.450
to the surface every night.

1187
00:55:18.450 --> 00:55:21.350
So we think that that proximity to deep water

1188
00:55:21.350 --> 00:55:24.003
might be important for feeding opportunities.

1189
00:55:25.110 --> 00:55:27.270
One thing I haven't mentioned yet is that

1190
00:55:27.270 --> 00:55:30.540
after devil rays and manta rays spend a lot of time

1191
00:55:30.540 --> 00:55:33.360
down in these deep cold waters feeding,

1192
00:55:33.360 --> 00:55:36.670
they have to recover that body heat.

1193
00:55:36.670 --> 00:55:38.290
They're cold blooded animals.

1194
00:55:38.290 --> 00:55:40.440
So they often come up to the surface

1195
00:55:40.440 --> 00:55:42.550
and they just hang out right at the surface,

1196
00:55:42.550 --> 00:55:44.750
soaking up the sun's rays.

1197
00:55:44.750 --> 00:55:46.950
And this is somewhere that lots of people see mantas

1198
00:55:46.950 --> 00:55:48.703
just basking at the surface.

1199
00:55:49.620 --> 00:55:52.770
Of course, if you're a big flat object at the surface,

1200
00:55:52.770 --> 00:55:54.460
you've got a big silhouette.

1201
00:55:54.460 --> 00:55:57.190
And if there are sharks and predators underneath you,

1202
00:55:57.190 --> 00:55:59.500
you're kind of a sitting duck.

1203
00:55:59.500 --> 00:56:03.330
And we do know that in that Northern Gulf of Mexico area

1204
00:56:03.330 --> 00:56:05.950
and specifically at the Flower Garden Banks,

1205
00:56:05.950 --> 00:56:09.910
there are a lot of big predators, big sharks in particular

1206
00:56:09.910 --> 00:56:10.810
which happened to be one

1207
00:56:10.810 --> 00:56:14.330
of the primary predators for mantas.

1208
00:56:14.330 --> 00:56:16.900
And this is just one tiny little manta

1209
00:56:16.900 --> 00:56:18.880
that I was lucky enough to see a few years ago.

1210
00:56:18.880 --> 00:56:23.070
And you can see he's got big chunks taken out of him

1211
00:56:23.070 --> 00:56:26.110
by very clearly a shark got ahold of him

1212
00:56:26.110 --> 00:56:27.940
but he managed to get free.

1213
00:56:27.940 --> 00:56:29.740
So we know that there are predators around,

1214
00:56:29.740 --> 00:56:31.590
we know that these guys are vulnerable

1215
00:56:31.590 --> 00:56:35.430
when they're so small to predation by sharks.

1216
00:56:35.430 --> 00:56:38.230
And so to put all these concepts together

1217
00:56:38.230 --> 00:56:39.820
and explain what I think is going on

1218
00:56:39.820 --> 00:56:41.273
at the Flower Garden Banks.

1219
00:56:43.166 --> 00:56:46.610
My hypothesis or my guess is that both the adult

1220
00:56:46.610 --> 00:56:49.530
and juvenile mantas are probably feeding

1221
00:56:49.530 --> 00:56:53.780
on these deep, really dense schools of krill

1222
00:56:53.780 --> 00:56:56.010
and euphausids and vertical migrators.

1223
00:56:56.010 --> 00:56:57.630
When they come up a little bit closer

1224
00:56:57.630 --> 00:57:01.360
to the surface at night, we think that the juveniles

1225
00:57:01.360 --> 00:57:03.880
and the adults are going down to feed on them.

1226
00:57:03.880 --> 00:57:06.760
And then when they need to recover their body heat,

1227
00:57:06.760 --> 00:57:09.790
I think that the adults probably are just

1228
00:57:09.790 --> 00:57:10.790
going up to the surface.

1229
00:57:10.790 --> 00:57:12.180
They're big, they don't have to worry about

1230
00:57:12.180 --> 00:57:14.020
predators as much.

1231
00:57:14.020 --> 00:57:16.440
But I think that the juveniles probably still have

1232
00:57:16.440 --> 00:57:19.110
to find some kind of safe harbor.

1233
00:57:19.110 --> 00:57:21.380
So they might be coming up to the Flower Garden Banks

1234
00:57:21.380 --> 00:57:24.580
where they can cruise around close to the bottom,

1235
00:57:24.580 --> 00:57:29.170
avoid predators, warm up in those warm near surface waters

1236
00:57:29.170 --> 00:57:31.040
without exposing themselves

1237
00:57:31.040 --> 00:57:34.310
to that additional predation risk.

1238
00:57:34.310 --> 00:57:35.920
So that's purely a hypothesis,

1239
00:57:35.920 --> 00:57:38.370
it's putting together everything that we know about mantas

1240
00:57:38.370 --> 00:57:41.040
in other regions and trying to come up with an explanation

1241
00:57:41.040 --> 00:57:44.853
for the patterns that we are seeing at Flower Garden Banks.

1242
00:57:45.960 --> 00:57:47.730
We've started doing some really,

1243
00:57:47.730 --> 00:57:49.270
initial satellite tagging there.

1244
00:57:49.270 --> 00:57:52.423
We're really interested in where these animals are going.

1245
00:57:53.330 --> 00:57:55.180
It's a rare opportunity for us

1246
00:57:55.180 --> 00:57:57.820
to directly study the juveniles.

1247
00:57:57.820 --> 00:58:00.420
We don't have access to juveniles, very many places.

1248
00:58:00.420 --> 00:58:02.660
So we're really interested to see if they're doing something

1249
00:58:02.660 --> 00:58:04.820
different from the adults.

1250
00:58:04.820 --> 00:58:07.250
So far, we've only managed to put one tag out,

1251
00:58:07.250 --> 00:58:08.670
this is from 2019.

1252
00:58:08.670 --> 00:58:10.630
We were hoping that this past summer

1253
00:58:10.630 --> 00:58:12.120
we'd be out there tagging mantas.

1254
00:58:12.120 --> 00:58:14.570
But of course, that didn't go to plan with COVID.

1255
00:58:15.480 --> 00:58:17.750
So from this really preliminary data,

1256
00:58:17.750 --> 00:58:21.150
we can say so far that it seems to be matching the pattern

1257
00:58:21.150 --> 00:58:23.250
that we are expecting to find.

1258
00:58:23.250 --> 00:58:26.100
Where they're spending a lot more time deeper at night,

1259
00:58:26.100 --> 00:58:28.720
they're going down to these depths where we might expect

1260
00:58:28.720 --> 00:58:30.360
to see the deep scattering layer

1261
00:58:30.360 --> 00:58:32.270
coming up close to the surface.

1262
00:58:32.270 --> 00:58:34.610
And then during the day, they're coming up

1263
00:58:34.610 --> 00:58:36.203
into shallower areas.

1264
00:58:37.270 --> 00:58:40.350
We also know that they're moving between banks.

1265
00:58:40.350 --> 00:58:43.860
So the tagged animal, the tag popped off

1266
00:58:43.860 --> 00:58:47.170
close to Bright Bank which is gonna be one

1267
00:58:47.170 --> 00:58:49.630
of the additional banks included

1268
00:58:50.920 --> 00:58:53.700
in the expanded sanctuary boundaries.

1269
00:58:53.700 --> 00:58:55.910
So we're really interested as we tag more animals

1270
00:58:55.910 --> 00:58:58.880
to see how they're using these other nearby banks,

1271
00:58:58.880 --> 00:59:02.910
how they're using this larger shelf habitat

1272
00:59:02.910 --> 00:59:04.970
that's right on the shelf break.

1273
00:59:04.970 --> 00:59:07.400
That's gonna be really, really interesting for us.

1274
00:59:07.400 --> 00:59:08.913
So stay tuned for that.

1275
00:59:10.000 --> 00:59:12.880
So takeaways from Flower Garden Banks.

1276
00:59:12.880 --> 00:59:14.790
Pretty much all of the mantas that we see

1277
00:59:14.790 --> 00:59:16.840
at Flower Garden Banks are juveniles.

1278
00:59:16.840 --> 00:59:18.530
And that is really extraordinary

1279
00:59:18.530 --> 00:59:21.057
because we don't see that in many other places,

1280
00:59:21.057 --> 00:59:23.950
there are a few known nursery habitats.

1281
00:59:23.950 --> 00:59:26.420
So we were able to formally classify

1282
00:59:26.420 --> 00:59:29.010
the Flower Garden Banks as a nursery habitat.

1283
00:59:29.010 --> 00:59:30.990
It met all of the criteria that we need

1284
00:59:32.731 --> 00:59:35.580
to use in order to actually call something

1285
00:59:35.580 --> 00:59:38.130
an official nursery habitat.

1286
00:59:38.130 --> 00:59:40.900
We don't yet know how they're using these other banks.

1287
00:59:40.900 --> 00:59:43.740
If they serve as a similar function

1288
00:59:43.740 --> 00:59:45.240
as the Flower Garden Banks.

1289
00:59:45.240 --> 00:59:47.940
We're really, really excited to learn more about that.

1290
00:59:49.860 --> 00:59:51.870
We think the reason these banks are important

1291
00:59:51.870 --> 00:59:54.410
is because they're close to these deep waters

1292
00:59:54.410 --> 00:59:55.530
that probably have lots of

1293
00:59:55.530 --> 00:59:57.823
foraging opportunities for the mantas.

1294
00:59:58.940 --> 01:00:01.190
But they also provide some protection afterwards,

1295
01:00:01.190 --> 01:00:04.240
where they can come back, heat up in these warm,

1296
01:00:04.240 --> 01:00:07.070
shallow waters without exposing them to

1297
01:00:07.070 --> 01:00:09.520
as much predation risk.

1298
01:00:09.520 --> 01:00:11.790
And we're also really interested to see

1299
01:00:11.790 --> 01:00:14.140
if these juveniles are moving around.

1300
01:00:14.140 --> 01:00:16.620
Maybe they're moving more than the adults.

1301
01:00:16.620 --> 01:00:18.930
How are they moving throughout the Gulf of Mexico,

1302
01:00:18.930 --> 01:00:21.060
the Atlantic, the Caribbean?

1303
01:00:21.060 --> 01:00:24.500
So as we tag more animals, we'll get to hopefully

1304
01:00:24.500 --> 01:00:26.050
answer some of these questions.

1305
01:00:27.870 --> 01:00:30.083
I'm certain I've gone way over my time.

1306
01:00:31.342 --> 01:00:33.500
I have a special shout out to all the great folks

1307
01:00:33.500 --> 01:00:35.230
at Flower Garden Banks who have helped

1308
01:00:35.230 --> 01:00:37.530
to make this work happen.

1309
01:00:37.530 --> 01:00:41.030
Funding from National Marine Sanctuary Foundation.

1310
01:00:41.030 --> 01:00:43.110
I got started on this project thanks to

1311
01:00:43.110 --> 01:00:45.950
the fellowship I had through the Nancy Foster Scholarship

1312
01:00:45.950 --> 01:00:48.030
through National Marine Sanctuaries.

1313
01:00:48.030 --> 01:00:49.560
And then some collaborators at

1314
01:00:49.560 --> 01:00:51.090
the Southeast Fisheries Science Center

1315
01:00:51.090 --> 01:00:53.040
as well who are helping with this work.

1316
01:00:54.142 --> 01:00:55.530
And then I'm just gonna skip through.

1317
01:00:55.530 --> 01:00:57.480
All this work is super collaborative,

1318
01:00:57.480 --> 01:00:59.500
loads of international collaborators.

1319
01:00:59.500 --> 01:01:02.040
So thanks to all of them for contributing

1320
01:01:02.040 --> 01:01:04.370
and all the funders and supporters.

1321
01:01:04.370 --> 01:01:06.200
And I don't even know, do we have time for questions?

1322
01:01:06.200 --> 01:01:07.610
Sorry about that.

1323
01:01:07.610 --> 01:01:10.010
<v Kelly>So we have reached our hour limit</v>

1324
01:01:10.010 --> 01:01:13.320
and what I will do now is do our usual wrap up.

1325
01:01:13.320 --> 01:01:15.000
But just to let you know,

1326
01:01:15.000 --> 01:01:16.770
if you'd like to hear some questions answered,

1327
01:01:16.770 --> 01:01:20.733
Josh has agreed to stay on about another 10 to 15 minutes.

1328
01:01:21.810 --> 01:01:24.060
I understand that most of you have probably planned

1329
01:01:24.060 --> 01:01:25.440
on being here for an hour.

1330
01:01:25.440 --> 01:01:27.700
So like I said, we will do our regular wrap up

1331
01:01:27.700 --> 01:01:30.430
and then we will jump over and have Josh continue

1332
01:01:30.430 --> 01:01:33.000
to answer questions for another 10 to 15 minutes.

1333
01:01:33.000 --> 01:01:35.330
So if you'd like to stay with us, we invite you to do that.

1334
01:01:35.330 --> 01:01:36.570
You're more than welcome.

1335
01:01:36.570 --> 01:01:39.673
And we will get to your questions momentarily.

1336
01:01:40.700 --> 01:01:44.620
In this case, I'd like to say that

1337
01:01:44.620 --> 01:01:47.833
we do just have that 10 to 15 minutes after the fact.

1338
01:01:48.690 --> 01:01:51.680
So if you have questions, we've gotten many questions

1339
01:01:51.680 --> 01:01:52.870
already lined up for you, Josh.

1340
01:01:52.870 --> 01:01:55.100
So that should not be a problem.

1341
01:01:55.100 --> 01:01:58.560
But we are going to take those from the question box

1342
01:01:58.560 --> 01:02:00.040
and we will read them out to him

1343
01:02:00.040 --> 01:02:01.270
and we will cluster them.

1344
01:02:01.270 --> 01:02:02.710
A lot of you have similar questions.

1345
01:02:02.710 --> 01:02:05.610
So if we don't answer yours specifically,

1346
01:02:05.610 --> 01:02:08.870
we'll probably get one answer that's very similar.

1347
01:02:08.870 --> 01:02:10.770
Let me go back to sharing my screen real quick

1348
01:02:10.770 --> 01:02:14.473
so we can wrap up what we've got going here.

1349
01:02:16.540 --> 01:02:20.490
And make sure you're seeing what I think you are.

1350
01:02:20.490 --> 01:02:23.120
So depending on the number of questions,

1351
01:02:23.120 --> 01:02:26.850
we will take that extra 10 to 15 minutes.

1352
01:02:26.850 --> 01:02:29.010
As a reminder to those of you who are educators,

1353
01:02:29.010 --> 01:02:31.680
we have provided a Manta Mysteries activity

1354
01:02:31.680 --> 01:02:34.320
in the handouts pane of the control panel.

1355
01:02:34.320 --> 01:02:36.710
I understand that some of you had some difficulties with it,

1356
01:02:36.710 --> 01:02:39.410
you just have to double click on it to download it.

1357
01:02:39.410 --> 01:02:40.760
If you still have difficulties,

1358
01:02:40.760 --> 01:02:45.400
please go to our website at flowergarden.noaa.gov.

1359
01:02:45.400 --> 01:02:47.173
It's also in the chat box for you.

1360
01:02:48.040 --> 01:02:50.260
We have a For Teacher section there

1361
01:02:50.260 --> 01:02:52.360
and you can find the manta mysteries activity

1362
01:02:52.360 --> 01:02:54.053
in that teacher's page.

1363
01:02:56.350 --> 01:02:59.060
Thank you for attending our Seaside Chats presentation

1364
01:02:59.060 --> 01:03:02.650
on Manta Rays, The Mysterious Giants in Our Backyard.

1365
01:03:02.650 --> 01:03:05.510
This is the second in a series of four presentations

1366
01:03:05.510 --> 01:03:07.070
we are offering this month.

1367
01:03:07.070 --> 01:03:09.020
We invite you to register for the remaining chats

1368
01:03:09.020 --> 01:03:13.160
by visiting us on the web at flowergarden.noaa.gov.

1369
01:03:13.160 --> 01:03:15.410
And we promise that our other topics will be just

1370
01:03:15.410 --> 01:03:18.300
as engaging and informative.

1371
01:03:18.300 --> 01:03:20.610
Next week, we'll be talking about Weathering Storms

1372
01:03:20.610 --> 01:03:22.770
and what happens on land during storms,

1373
01:03:22.770 --> 01:03:24.230
as well as what happens in the ocean

1374
01:03:24.230 --> 01:03:26.910
is affecting our coral reefs and the Flower Garden Banks

1375
01:03:26.910 --> 01:03:29.170
and the rest of the Gulf of Mexico.

1376
01:03:29.170 --> 01:03:30.320
And then the following week,

1377
01:03:30.320 --> 01:03:33.150
we're gonna talk about Remarkable Algae

1378
01:03:33.150 --> 01:03:35.760
because this has proven to be a really fascinating subject

1379
01:03:35.760 --> 01:03:37.641
with the deep areas that are part of

1380
01:03:37.641 --> 01:03:39.220
the existing sanctuary as well as all

1381
01:03:39.220 --> 01:03:42.410
the new expansion areas, and the neat algae habitats

1382
01:03:42.410 --> 01:03:45.540
that have provided so much background knowledge for us

1383
01:03:45.540 --> 01:03:47.520
now and the more we explore.

1384
01:03:47.520 --> 01:03:50.483
So we'll have a researcher talking to us about that.

1385
01:03:52.530 --> 01:03:54.380
Today's presentation has also been part of

1386
01:03:54.380 --> 01:03:56.940
the National Marine Sanctuaries Webinar Series

1387
01:03:56.940 --> 01:03:59.610
and while Seaside Chats last just one month,

1388
01:03:59.610 --> 01:04:02.320
our National Webinar Series continues throughout the year

1389
01:04:02.320 --> 01:04:04.090
to provide educators with educational

1390
01:04:04.090 --> 01:04:07.370
and scientific expertise, resources and training

1391
01:04:07.370 --> 01:04:10.410
to support ocean and climate literacy in the classroom.

1392
01:04:10.410 --> 01:04:13.810
Be sure to check the website for recordings of past Webinars

1393
01:04:13.810 --> 01:04:16.250
and a schedule of what's to come.

1394
01:04:16.250 --> 01:04:18.110
As a reminder, we will share the recording

1395
01:04:18.110 --> 01:04:20.530
of this Webinar via the National Marine Sanctuaries

1396
01:04:20.530 --> 01:04:24.113
and Flower Garden Banks National Marine Sanctuary websites.

1397
01:04:26.797 --> 01:04:28.250
And if you know people who didn't make it tonight

1398
01:04:28.250 --> 01:04:31.390
who wanted to, if they can still use the link

1399
01:04:31.390 --> 01:04:33.700
for getting into the Webinar tonight to access

1400
01:04:33.700 --> 01:04:35.700
the recording live on the Webinar site.

1401
01:04:35.700 --> 01:04:37.503
If they'd like to do that tomorrow.

1402
01:04:39.720 --> 01:04:42.210
Following this webinar, all attendees will receive

1403
01:04:42.210 --> 01:04:45.590
a PDF copy of a certificate of attendance that provides

1404
01:04:45.590 --> 01:04:48.660
documentation for one hour of professional development

1405
01:04:48.660 --> 01:04:50.370
for today's presentation.

1406
01:04:50.370 --> 01:04:53.180
This includes our Texas CPE provider number

1407
01:04:53.180 --> 01:04:55.610
for those of you who are Texas educators.

1408
01:04:55.610 --> 01:04:57.690
And if you are an educator outside of Texas,

1409
01:04:57.690 --> 01:04:59.150
please use this certificate to help

1410
01:04:59.150 --> 01:05:01.680
get your hours approved in your district.

1411
01:05:01.680 --> 01:05:03.550
If you require additional information,

1412
01:05:03.550 --> 01:05:07.480
please contact me at flowergarden@noaa.gov

1413
01:05:07.480 --> 01:05:10.290
and I'll do what I can to help you out with that.

1414
01:05:10.290 --> 01:05:12.870
There will also be a short evaluation that asks questions

1415
01:05:12.870 --> 01:05:15.530
for you to answer following today's presentation.

1416
01:05:15.530 --> 01:05:17.390
Please complete the survey immediately

1417
01:05:17.390 --> 01:05:19.210
after signing off the Webinar.

1418
01:05:19.210 --> 01:05:21.650
It should only take about three minutes to complete

1419
01:05:21.650 --> 01:05:23.670
and we greatly appreciate any feedback

1420
01:05:23.670 --> 01:05:25.490
you are willing to share.

1421
01:05:25.490 --> 01:05:28.720
Thanks again to Josh for a great presentation

1422
01:05:28.720 --> 01:05:31.930
about manta rays and their relevance to

1423
01:05:31.930 --> 01:05:33.407
Flower Garden Banks National Marine Sanctuary

1424
01:05:33.407 --> 01:05:34.750
and the Gulf of Mexico,

1425
01:05:34.750 --> 01:05:38.400
as well as their their status worldwide.

1426
01:05:38.400 --> 01:05:41.610
And thanks to all of you for taking the time to join us.

1427
01:05:41.610 --> 01:05:44.520
This concludes the main portion of our Webinar.

1428
01:05:44.520 --> 01:05:46.100
Anyone who would like to stay on,

1429
01:05:46.100 --> 01:05:49.373
we will start sharing questions with Joshua.

1430
01:05:51.970 --> 01:05:53.103
Josh, you ready?

1431
01:05:54.723 --> 01:05:55.556
<v ->I'm ready.</v>

1432
01:05:55.556 --> 01:05:57.995
Get me talking about mantas and I just can't stop.

1433
01:05:57.995 --> 01:06:00.110
(Kelly laughs)

1434
01:06:00.110 --> 01:06:02.800
<v ->So there've been several questions about the manta tags.</v>

1435
01:06:02.800 --> 01:06:04.280
What are they made of?

1436
01:06:04.280 --> 01:06:06.700
How do you find them after they pop off?

1437
01:06:06.700 --> 01:06:08.250
How do you collect them?

1438
01:06:08.250 --> 01:06:11.850
Kind of the general logistics about the tags you use.

1439
01:06:11.850 --> 01:06:13.340
<v ->Sure.</v>

1440
01:06:13.340 --> 01:06:14.590
So what are they made of?

1441
01:06:15.560 --> 01:06:16.503
Good question.

1442
01:06:17.524 --> 01:06:18.357
I don't know.

1443
01:06:18.357 --> 01:06:22.163
I think they're resin coating.

1444
01:06:23.060 --> 01:06:24.120
They're super robust.

1445
01:06:24.120 --> 01:06:29.120
They can go to like 2000 meters depth before they implode,

1446
01:06:29.630 --> 01:06:31.053
so over a mile deep.

1447
01:06:32.260 --> 01:06:35.700
And we put them on the animal with a pole spear,

1448
01:06:35.700 --> 01:06:37.990
as a little anchor or a dart on it that goes

1449
01:06:37.990 --> 01:06:41.460
under their skin and then holds it on.

1450
01:06:41.460 --> 01:06:43.720
And as I said, there's not much of a reaction

1451
01:06:43.720 --> 01:06:45.853
to that tagging process.

1452
01:06:47.150 --> 01:06:49.810
They stay attached for as long as we tell them to

1453
01:06:49.810 --> 01:06:51.850
or if they pull out early, that's also a thing

1454
01:06:51.850 --> 01:06:53.410
that happens sometimes.

1455
01:06:53.410 --> 01:06:56.560
And then we don't actually have to collect them,

1456
01:06:56.560 --> 01:06:59.410
they float to the surface and they send all their data back

1457
01:06:59.410 --> 01:07:02.010
via satellite which is really cool,

1458
01:07:02.010 --> 01:07:05.420
because they pop off in the weirdest, wildest places,

1459
01:07:05.420 --> 01:07:07.174
way off shore.

1460
01:07:07.174 --> 01:07:09.930
And there's no way we'd be able to get them back.

1461
01:07:09.930 --> 01:07:11.670
Sometimes they wash up on a beach.

1462
01:07:11.670 --> 01:07:14.920
I had one that I deployed in Mexico

1463
01:07:14.920 --> 01:07:18.170
float across the entire Pacific after it popped off.

1464
01:07:18.170 --> 01:07:22.790
And a Navy ordinance disposal technician

1465
01:07:22.790 --> 01:07:26.320
found it in Guam and sent it back to us.

1466
01:07:26.320 --> 01:07:27.480
And when that happens,

1467
01:07:27.480 --> 01:07:30.440
you can pull a bunch more data off of it.

1468
01:07:30.440 --> 01:07:33.490
It has much finer resolution that it can't transmit

1469
01:07:33.490 --> 01:07:37.023
all of that by satellite. So that can be handy.

1470
01:07:38.540 --> 01:07:41.510
So hopefully that answers most of those questions.

1471
01:07:41.510 --> 01:07:42.520
<v Kelly>Great.</v>

1472
01:07:42.520 --> 01:07:46.010
What do you think about the manta night dives in Hawaii

1473
01:07:46.010 --> 01:07:48.400
where they use lights to attract mantas?

1474
01:07:48.400 --> 01:07:50.210
And along with that and how about

1475
01:07:50.210 --> 01:07:51.500
the issue of touching mantas?

1476
01:07:51.500 --> 01:07:54.050
How are these things affecting the mantas behavior?

1477
01:07:55.090 --> 01:07:58.690
<v ->There's been a lot of increasingly some more work looking</v>

1478
01:07:58.690 --> 01:08:03.510
at how diver interactions can influence mantas.

1479
01:08:03.510 --> 01:08:06.710
Overall, tourism is a really positive thing.

1480
01:08:06.710 --> 01:08:11.710
Ecotourism provides livelihoods for folks in areas

1481
01:08:11.905 --> 01:08:14.823
where they might otherwise turn to fishing let's say.

1482
01:08:16.270 --> 01:08:19.910
It's good for anybody to be able to demonstrate

1483
01:08:19.910 --> 01:08:22.300
the economic value of mantas.

1484
01:08:22.300 --> 01:08:25.473
And so in general, we think that tourism

1485
01:08:25.473 --> 01:08:26.843
is a really good thing.

1486
01:08:28.356 --> 01:08:30.300
It doesn't mean that unrestricted tourism

1487
01:08:30.300 --> 01:08:31.673
will always be good.

1488
01:08:33.197 --> 01:08:37.060
There are lots of records and now some more formalized

1489
01:08:37.060 --> 01:08:41.410
studies coming out showing that diver behavior

1490
01:08:41.410 --> 01:08:43.760
can influence manta behavior.

1491
01:08:43.760 --> 01:08:46.210
If divers are chasing mantas, they'll quit feeding,

1492
01:08:46.210 --> 01:08:49.123
they'll quit cleaning, they'll leave the reef, et cetera.

1493
01:08:50.440 --> 01:08:53.410
Humans can definitely be disruptive

1494
01:08:53.410 --> 01:08:56.430
even when they're just tourists, divers.

1495
01:08:56.430 --> 01:08:59.450
So it's really important that,

1496
01:08:59.450 --> 01:09:02.790
and more and more tourism operators are recognizing that

1497
01:09:02.790 --> 01:09:04.590
they have to follow best practices.

1498
01:09:04.590 --> 01:09:06.950
They have to educate divers and snorkelers

1499
01:09:06.950 --> 01:09:08.960
before they just toss them in the water with mantas,

1500
01:09:08.960 --> 01:09:10.433
so they know what not to do.

1501
01:09:11.600 --> 01:09:16.600
And also maintaining limits so that you don't have

1502
01:09:16.663 --> 01:09:19.750
1,000 people trying to chase after one manta

1503
01:09:19.750 --> 01:09:22.283
for that perfect manta experience or whatever.

1504
01:09:24.277 --> 01:09:26.430
With that in mind, the night dives in Hawaii

1505
01:09:26.430 --> 01:09:28.260
are really super cool.

1506
01:09:28.260 --> 01:09:33.260
I think a lot of operators do a good job of educating people

1507
01:09:33.520 --> 01:09:36.290
so they know not to touch the mantas,

1508
01:09:36.290 --> 01:09:38.960
not to chase the mantas, just to kind of stay put

1509
01:09:38.960 --> 01:09:41.203
and watch it happen around them.

1510
01:09:42.070 --> 01:09:44.923
And when they follow those rules, I think it's really great.

1511
01:09:46.970 --> 01:09:48.393
I'm supportive of that.

1512
01:09:52.050 --> 01:09:53.990
<v Kelly>The next batch of questions has to do with</v>

1513
01:09:53.990 --> 01:09:57.880
mating behavior and the number of pups over a lifetime.

1514
01:09:57.880 --> 01:09:59.753
And do they care for the pups?

1515
01:10:00.910 --> 01:10:03.230
<v ->So mating behavior, I didn't really go into that at all.</v>

1516
01:10:03.230 --> 01:10:05.923
Or else you would have been here for another two hours.

1517
01:10:07.115 --> 01:10:08.850
<v Kelly>All right, a condensed version.</v>

1518
01:10:08.850 --> 01:10:10.960
<v ->Courtship behavior is really cool.</v>

1519
01:10:10.960 --> 01:10:12.240
We don't know that much about it.

1520
01:10:12.240 --> 01:10:13.790
We know that they kind of court

1521
01:10:14.680 --> 01:10:16.890
and have these mate pre-mating behaviors

1522
01:10:16.890 --> 01:10:21.190
at reefs and at cleaning stations.

1523
01:10:21.190 --> 01:10:25.170
So we rarely see in the oceanic mantas mating behavior,

1524
01:10:25.170 --> 01:10:27.543
we see a little bit of it in reef mantas.

1525
01:10:30.050 --> 01:10:32.480
It happens at these socializing sites

1526
01:10:32.480 --> 01:10:34.153
where they come to aggregate.

1527
01:10:36.990 --> 01:10:40.090
How many pups do they have over their entire life?

1528
01:10:40.090 --> 01:10:41.790
It depends probably on the animal,

1529
01:10:41.790 --> 01:10:44.510
and the location, and how productive,

1530
01:10:44.510 --> 01:10:47.360
how many resources there are for them there.

1531
01:10:47.360 --> 01:10:50.310
But we know that there are gaps between two to seven years.

1532
01:10:50.310 --> 01:10:53.430
So if they take 10 years to reach maturity

1533
01:10:53.430 --> 01:10:55.940
and then they live for another 40 years

1534
01:10:55.940 --> 01:10:57.860
and have a pup every five years,

1535
01:10:57.860 --> 01:11:02.860
that might be five or 10 pups in their entire lifetime.

1536
01:11:04.000 --> 01:11:05.640
Very few.

1537
01:11:05.640 --> 01:11:08.160
And as far as we know, once the baby is born

1538
01:11:08.160 --> 01:11:10.593
there is no parental care at all.

1539
01:11:11.540 --> 01:11:13.150
There's no nursing or anything

1540
01:11:13.150 --> 01:11:14.920
but there's also no protection.

1541
01:11:14.920 --> 01:11:16.820
The pup is just on its own.

1542
01:11:16.820 --> 01:11:20.943
And that's probably why they come out so big.

1543
01:11:20.943 --> 01:11:25.470
So other animals like other sharks that have larger litters

1544
01:11:25.470 --> 01:11:29.290
of five or 10 or 20 pups,

1545
01:11:29.290 --> 01:11:31.990
they devote less resources to each animal.

1546
01:11:31.990 --> 01:11:34.480
So each one probably has a lower chance of survival

1547
01:11:34.480 --> 01:11:36.090
but there are more of them.

1548
01:11:36.090 --> 01:11:38.750
Whereas mantas are devoting a huge amount of resources

1549
01:11:38.750 --> 01:11:42.300
to growing a really big single pup who's probably

1550
01:11:42.300 --> 01:11:45.980
more likely to survive because it's so big.

1551
01:11:45.980 --> 01:11:49.723
But there's no maternal care or anything after it's born.

1552
01:11:51.590 --> 01:11:53.460
<v Kelly>Next question is micro plastics</v>

1553
01:11:53.460 --> 01:11:55.410
and how they might be affecting mantas.

1554
01:11:56.620 --> 01:11:57.870
<v ->A big concern.</v>

1555
01:11:57.870 --> 01:12:00.170
Lots of folks are interested in that question.

1556
01:12:01.780 --> 01:12:03.700
The one thing that I will say.

1557
01:12:03.700 --> 01:12:05.050
First of all we don't know.

1558
01:12:06.340 --> 01:12:08.420
People are looking at that.

1559
01:12:08.420 --> 01:12:09.880
Obviously they're filter feeders.

1560
01:12:09.880 --> 01:12:11.780
It would be hard for them to discriminate

1561
01:12:11.780 --> 01:12:14.970
between a plastic and a zooplankton

1562
01:12:15.970 --> 01:12:17.910
if they're just going through feeding.

1563
01:12:17.910 --> 01:12:20.100
Although it does seem like they can be selective.

1564
01:12:20.100 --> 01:12:22.760
So maybe if they went through an area with a ton of plastic,

1565
01:12:22.760 --> 01:12:24.143
maybe they'd stop feeding.

1566
01:12:25.090 --> 01:12:29.220
The one good thing I'll say is that most micro plastics,

1567
01:12:29.220 --> 01:12:31.860
not all, but most seem to float.

1568
01:12:31.860 --> 01:12:34.560
And it accumulate close to the surface.

1569
01:12:34.560 --> 01:12:38.480
And as we've seen mantas and devil rays spend a lot

1570
01:12:38.480 --> 01:12:40.240
of time feeding down deep,

1571
01:12:40.240 --> 01:12:43.030
where as far as I know micro plastic,

1572
01:12:43.030 --> 01:12:44.440
is not that they're not there,

1573
01:12:44.440 --> 01:12:46.880
but they're just lower concentrations.

1574
01:12:46.880 --> 01:12:50.190
So it might be less of a risk than if they were feeding

1575
01:12:50.190 --> 01:12:51.870
closer to the surface.

1576
01:12:51.870 --> 01:12:53.613
But big unknown for us.

1577
01:12:56.400 --> 01:13:00.650
<v Kelly>And any information on how the Gulf oil spill</v>

1578
01:13:00.650 --> 01:13:01.650
affected the mantas?

1579
01:13:02.760 --> 01:13:03.593
<v ->We don't really know.</v>

1580
01:13:03.593 --> 01:13:05.330
That happened before we were

1581
01:13:07.010 --> 01:13:10.733
focused on any of these tagging efforts, what have you.

1582
01:13:12.400 --> 01:13:14.880
As far as I know, I haven't specifically looked at this,

1583
01:13:14.880 --> 01:13:17.630
but I don't think that there was like a dip in sightings

1584
01:13:17.630 --> 01:13:22.083
at the Flower Garden Banks, for example, around those years.

1585
01:13:24.440 --> 01:13:25.660
Hard to say.

1586
01:13:25.660 --> 01:13:28.760
I can't give a really good answer but nothing specific

1587
01:13:28.760 --> 01:13:31.070
that I know of in that case.

1588
01:13:33.030 --> 01:13:34.890
<v Kelly>And I think in the interest of time</v>

1589
01:13:34.890 --> 01:13:36.920
we will make this the last one.

1590
01:13:36.920 --> 01:13:39.670
The question surrounds all the hybridization discussion

1591
01:13:41.320 --> 01:13:43.900
and the differentiation between the three species.

1592
01:13:43.900 --> 01:13:45.563
Is the disconnect.

1593
01:13:47.102 --> 01:13:49.500
It is the third species because of DNA?

1594
01:13:49.500 --> 01:13:53.840
Is it because of the lumping versus scattering preferences

1595
01:13:53.840 --> 01:13:56.520
of the primary investigators?

1596
01:13:56.520 --> 01:13:58.410
Is the hybridization?

1597
01:13:58.410 --> 01:14:00.623
Maybe the third group is all hybrids?

1598
01:14:01.580 --> 01:14:03.930
A whole cluster of questions along those lines.

1599
01:14:06.200 --> 01:14:08.473
<v ->It's funky. That's for sure.</v>

1600
01:14:13.240 --> 01:14:18.240
First let me say that species is a human definition.

1601
01:14:18.760 --> 01:14:20.430
And now we're getting a little philosophical.

1602
01:14:20.430 --> 01:14:25.220
But nature isn't working in defined species.

1603
01:14:25.220 --> 01:14:26.360
Nature doesn't say like,

1604
01:14:26.360 --> 01:14:30.183
okay, I've had a new species, so call it this.

1605
01:14:31.600 --> 01:14:34.030
These processes evolve over time

1606
01:14:34.030 --> 01:14:35.640
and we're assuming that we're looking at them

1607
01:14:35.640 --> 01:14:40.640
at a snapshot where everything is able to fit neatly

1608
01:14:40.890 --> 01:14:42.790
in it's nice little box.

1609
01:14:42.790 --> 01:14:46.350
In reality, these things could be in process.

1610
01:14:46.350 --> 01:14:47.713
So it could be that,

1611
01:14:49.240 --> 01:14:51.650
the sort of the divergence

1612
01:14:51.650 --> 01:14:54.270
of these two species is in the mix.

1613
01:14:54.270 --> 01:14:56.060
And if we give it another few million years

1614
01:14:56.060 --> 01:14:59.450
maybe then it would be a lot more easy to identify them

1615
01:14:59.450 --> 01:15:02.200
and to differentiate them genetically.

1616
01:15:02.200 --> 01:15:04.980
And maybe we wouldn't see hybrids.

1617
01:15:04.980 --> 01:15:07.380
But we might not be at that stage

1618
01:15:07.380 --> 01:15:09.950
where they're fully diverged.

1619
01:15:09.950 --> 01:15:12.520
It might be an ongoing thing.

1620
01:15:12.520 --> 01:15:14.570
So that's the first thing I'll say is that these

1621
01:15:14.570 --> 01:15:17.763
are human derived labels of what species are.

1622
01:15:19.500 --> 01:15:22.260
That being said, there are very, very clear

1623
01:15:22.260 --> 01:15:26.540
genetic differences in most of the ones that we sample,

1624
01:15:26.540 --> 01:15:30.110
between the Atlantic mantas and what we think of

1625
01:15:30.110 --> 01:15:31.523
as the oceanic mantas.

1626
01:15:33.200 --> 01:15:35.410
So we know that there are genetic distinctions

1627
01:15:35.410 --> 01:15:40.110
and finding hybrids is not so uncommon.

1628
01:15:40.110 --> 01:15:43.220
That's something that there have even been some oceanic

1629
01:15:43.220 --> 01:15:45.240
and reef manta hybrids identified.

1630
01:15:45.240 --> 01:15:48.150
So we haven't done enough work to really know exactly

1631
01:15:48.150 --> 01:15:50.020
what that means in terms of speciation,

1632
01:15:50.020 --> 01:15:52.253
it definitely complicates things.

1633
01:15:53.580 --> 01:15:58.460
But the tricky part is that we know genetically speaking

1634
01:15:58.460 --> 01:15:59.710
that there's a third species,

1635
01:15:59.710 --> 01:16:03.270
but it's really hard to find these morphological

1636
01:16:03.270 --> 01:16:05.970
characteristics that are consistent between

1637
01:16:05.970 --> 01:16:08.133
the Atlantic and the oceanic mantas.

1638
01:16:09.130 --> 01:16:12.110
And that just makes it inconvenient for us

1639
01:16:12.110 --> 01:16:14.713
to be able to put things in a box.

1640
01:16:15.571 --> 01:16:18.490
And it's not uncommon to find really similar things.

1641
01:16:18.490 --> 01:16:22.350
They're two hammerhead shark species that both occur

1642
01:16:22.350 --> 01:16:24.260
on the East Coast of the US.

1643
01:16:24.260 --> 01:16:27.210
And visually it's almost impossible to tell the difference.

1644
01:16:28.177 --> 01:16:30.080
You have to I think count how many vertebrae it has,

1645
01:16:30.080 --> 01:16:31.720
to be able to say which is which.

1646
01:16:31.720 --> 01:16:34.590
But genetically you can tell the difference.

1647
01:16:34.590 --> 01:16:36.960
And visually you can.

1648
01:16:36.960 --> 01:16:41.010
Me now having looked at hundreds of photos of Atlantic

1649
01:16:41.010 --> 01:16:43.670
and oceanic mantas and been in the water with them,

1650
01:16:43.670 --> 01:16:45.310
I can look at one and say,

1651
01:16:45.310 --> 01:16:47.430
that's almost definitely an Atlantic manta

1652
01:16:47.430 --> 01:16:48.770
or, hey, there's a really good chance

1653
01:16:48.770 --> 01:16:50.310
that's an oceanic manta.

1654
01:16:50.310 --> 01:16:52.680
It's not like a hard line.

1655
01:16:52.680 --> 01:16:54.860
It's a bunch of different characteristics that all

1656
01:16:54.860 --> 01:16:57.323
weigh in on that identification process.

1657
01:16:58.280 --> 01:17:00.550
But I think we can very confidently now say

1658
01:17:00.550 --> 01:17:03.120
that there is a lot of evidence including

1659
01:17:03.120 --> 01:17:06.470
really robust genetic data that indicates

1660
01:17:06.470 --> 01:17:08.420
there's a separate species.

1661
01:17:08.420 --> 01:17:12.800
So we're just waiting for it to be formally described.

1662
01:17:12.800 --> 01:17:14.003
Hope that makes sense.

1663
01:17:14.990 --> 01:17:16.400
<v Kelly>Thank you, Josh.</v>

1664
01:17:16.400 --> 01:17:18.740
Thanks again for the great presentation.

1665
01:17:18.740 --> 01:17:21.610
Thanks for agreeing to stay on another 10, 15 minutes

1666
01:17:21.610 --> 01:17:24.340
for us to get some questions answered.

1667
01:17:24.340 --> 01:17:26.020
There are still many in the wings.

1668
01:17:26.020 --> 01:17:28.260
And so folks, if we did not get to your question,

1669
01:17:28.260 --> 01:17:30.320
we will see what we can do as the sanctuary staff

1670
01:17:30.320 --> 01:17:32.360
to answer some of those questions for you.

1671
01:17:32.360 --> 01:17:34.647
And maybe we'll pass a few on to Josh

1672
01:17:34.647 --> 01:17:35.940
to see if he can help us out.

1673
01:17:35.940 --> 01:17:38.710
And if we can get answers to some of those questions for you

1674
01:17:38.710 --> 01:17:41.710
we'll share those with you via email after the fact.

1675
01:17:41.710 --> 01:17:43.680
So give us a couple of weeks and we'll see what we can do

1676
01:17:43.680 --> 01:17:46.220
about answering some more questions.

1677
01:17:46.220 --> 01:17:47.950
Thanks again, Josh.

1678
01:17:47.950 --> 01:17:50.990
Appreciate all your extra time and your expertise

1679
01:17:50.990 --> 01:17:52.200
and your willingness to be part of

1680
01:17:52.200 --> 01:17:54.180
our Seaside Chat Series.

1681
01:17:54.180 --> 01:17:57.040
Thanks to all of you for taking the time to join us.

1682
01:17:57.040 --> 01:17:59.240
And this concludes today's Webinar.

1683
01:17:59.240 --> 01:18:00.073
Thank you.